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I think this sounds great in a hand wavy way but most folks don't have unlimited time and funds to do this and need to raise money in order to build their busin

I think this sounds great in a hand wavy way but most folks don't have unlimited time and funds to do this and need to raise money in order to build their business So worrying about YC / other accelerator /angel funding is not mutually exclusive of "building your business"

danieltillett 11y ago
Well as someone who has built a (moderately) successful startup without any outside funding or acceleration I have a different perspective on this. While I do think YC provides a lot of value to their alumni, people can get fixated on the process of raising funds and not building their business. Build a great business making real money and you won’t need funding.
- mikeryan 11y ago
  Look I run a (moderately) successful services firm that's been completely bootstrapped as well ;-) I totally get it, but for every github and Atlassian there's also a Facebook and Snapchat or a hardware startup (wish I could think of one now...) where outside funding is essential.
  - danieltillett 11y ago
    I think the key here is don’t try and build a Snapchat or Facebook unless you are an insider. Build a business that works first and once you have the experience, skill, and most importantly contacts, then build a VC-only business if you really want to.
ogreveins 11y ago
It makes sense to become profitable more quickly then. Github was profitable nearly from the get go. So was Atlassian. There's also that guy who lived in japan and made flash cards for teachers. There's also the guy who made You Need A Budget with just an excel spreadsheet and some charisma. If your business idea is too big to make without large (seed investment size) amounts of funds then you should pick something else or get a job and slowly build it with your own income. Suck it up.
- staunch 11y ago
  This is actually the conventional wisdom despite nearly all of the evidence being against it. You can name the few startups that have done what you're recommending, but every other (high growth) startup did it the way you're knocking. A great many people try to create startups while maintaining day jobs. You don't hear about those ones, ever.
  - danieltillett 11y ago
    Sure the startups that make the most noise are typical VC backed businesses. The ones you don’t hear about are the ones where the founders control 100% of the business, are in highly profitable niches, and where they make a few million a year in profit which they get to keep. These type of businesses get very little press, but they are very good to own and run - I of course know nothing about them :)
    - tedmiston 11y ago
      PlentyOfFish is a good example of this. http://www.businessinsider.com/how-markus-frind-bootstrapped-plentyoffish-and-sold-it-for-575-million-2015-7 http://www.businessinsider.com/how-markus-frind-bootstrapped... Though by the traditional silicon valley definition of startup, the ones like you describe can be labeled something like lifestyle businesses, solopreneur ventures, etc. I think people like Chris Guillebeau (The $100 Startup), Jason Fried / DHH (blogs and books), and Marco Ament are successful people to read that are also good examples of starting businesses this way. Maybe even Tim Ferriss (4HWW).

danieltillett 11y ago

Well as someone who has built a (moderately) successful startup without any outside funding or acceleration I have a different perspective on this. While I do think YC provides a lot of value to their alumni, people can get fixated on the process of raising funds and not building their business. Build a great business making real money and you won’t need funding.

mikeryan 11y ago
Look I run a (moderately) successful services firm that's been completely bootstrapped as well ;-) I totally get it, but for every github and Atlassian there's also a Facebook and Snapchat or a hardware startup (wish I could think of one now...) where outside funding is essential.
- danieltillett 11y ago
  I think the key here is don’t try and build a Snapchat or Facebook unless you are an insider. Build a business that works first and once you have the experience, skill, and most importantly contacts, then build a VC-only business if you really want to.

ogreveins 11y ago

It makes sense to become profitable more quickly then. Github was profitable nearly from the get go. So was Atlassian. There's also that guy who lived in japan and made flash cards for teachers. There's also the guy who made You Need A Budget with just an excel spreadsheet and some charisma. If your business idea is too big to make without large (seed investment size) amounts of funds then you should pick something else or get a job and slowly build it with your own income. Suck it up.

staunch 11y ago
This is actually the conventional wisdom despite nearly all of the evidence being against it. You can name the few startups that have done what you're recommending, but every other (high growth) startup did it the way you're knocking. A great many people try to create startups while maintaining day jobs. You don't hear about those ones, ever.
- danieltillett 11y ago
  Sure the startups that make the most noise are typical VC backed businesses. The ones you don’t hear about are the ones where the founders control 100% of the business, are in highly profitable niches, and where they make a few million a year in profit which they get to keep. These type of businesses get very little press, but they are very good to own and run - I of course know nothing about them :)
  - tedmiston 11y ago
    PlentyOfFish is a good example of this. http://www.businessinsider.com/how-markus-frind-bootstrapped-plentyoffish-and-sold-it-for-575-million-2015-7 http://www.businessinsider.com/how-markus-frind-bootstrapped... Though by the traditional silicon valley definition of startup, the ones like you describe can be labeled something like lifestyle businesses, solopreneur ventures, etc. I think people like Chris Guillebeau (The $100 Startup), Jason Fried / DHH (blogs and books), and Marco Ament are successful people to read that are also good examples of starting businesses this way. Maybe even Tim Ferriss (4HWW).