5 ms·

All the food trucks, street and market vendors, estate and yard sales, handymen, etc I see accept credit cards using Square. If they figure out how to hang on t

All the food trucks, street and market vendors, estate and yard sales, handymen, etc I see accept credit cards using Square. If they figure out how to hang on to this market and grow as these little vendors grow then they're in good shape. Being down 10% when the Dow is down 400+ points for days on is not unusual. The big question is - who is Square competing with.

minimaxir 11y ago
> If they figure out how to hang on to this market and grow as these little vendors grow then they're in good shape. Now that Square is a public company with shareholders, the Silicon Valley mantra of growth-at-all-costs no longer generally applies, instead the focus is on profitability/ROI. Which is something that Square lacks, and is in an industry with slim margins already.
marrone12 11y ago
The big competitors are Shopkeep and Revel. However, neither of them are public and likely aren't going to soon given the state of the industry.
- strictnein 11y ago
  PayPal is in this market as well: https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/credit-card-reader https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/credit-card-reader
  - cptskippy 11y ago
    I've only ever seen three of those in my entire life, they're all locked in a cabinet behind me gathering dust. On the other hand I paid for something with Square just yesterday and as my card was being swiped the lady said "We're excited because we're suppose to get the new Chip reader from Square next week."
  - randomsearch 11y ago
    > PayPal is in this market as well: This reminds me of Peter Thiel's thoughts on monopolies. Square are in competition with every payment method of every kind. They are not in some tiny "niche" category of payment that will somehow remain invulnerable to competition from banks, Apple Pay, Android Pay, Stripe, etc. etc. I don't see how they can possibly survive in the long-term.
Retric 11y ago
There market cap is ~3 Billion which generally suggests a fairly large company. If managed well they can probably grow 10x over the next decade, but that may already be factored into there stock price.
misiti3780 11y ago
i live in manhattan and see a lot of vendors (though not usually food) accept payments through hardware that is not square. same technology, just not square
dasil003 11y ago
If the tech bubble bursts I'm not sure who is going to be buying the $15, undersized lunches that the new wave of food trucks is flooding the market with.
- JBReefer 11y ago
  Maybe in SF, but not in the rest of the world. Even here in Silicon Alley, we're a small piece of a very large pie.
  - anjc 11y ago
    It's the opposite surely. Some of the companies and concepts that seem to survive in SF are considered barmey in other wealthy western cities. Startups whose customers are other startups..
- blhack 11y ago
  The $3 oversized lunch that comes on a food truck that serves mexican food and primarily seems to service factories and the like uses square too, btw.
pbreit 11y ago
Itself. It is deploying tons of resources on non-core activities like scheduling & food delivery. All the ceding online payments to Stripe, being last to release an Apple Pay terminal and having almost no international business.
rhino369 11y ago
The other big question is whether that small market for street merchants is really enough to justify the stock price. I'm sure you can build a great business in that market, but is it a 3 billion dollar business?
- bunderbunder 11y ago
  It's not just street merchants. At least in my area it's also steadily taking over at independent brick-and-mortar businesses too.
estel 11y ago
> The big question is - who is Square competing with. There's a bunch internationally where Square hasn't really begun to compete.
potatolicious 11y ago
> "The big question is - who is Square competing with." Anecdotally, tons of other people. Looking at the coffee shops and smaller stores in my area there's a pretty wide array of iPad-POS systems in use that aren't Square. In fact where I am (NYC) I'd wager that Square holds a plurality of that market rather than the majority. Most of their frontends (in so far as I have to interact with them as a customer) aren't quite as slick as Square's, but they do get the job done, and presumably vendors use them because they're cheaper, which only underscores how fragile Square's business is. These third party solutions aren't as sexy or slick as Square, but ultimately when it comes to payment processing sexiness is very, very far down the list of priorities. It's also worth noting that there are big juggernauts moving in on Square's territory of physical transactions - PayPal being one - who already run enormous electronic payment volume. Stripe also has a big piece of the electronic payments pie and can potentially move in on Square's territory, while Square has so far been unable to branch out beyond physical payments.
ryanSrich 11y ago
Exactly my thoughts. In fact I can't remember the last time I saw a restaurant, coffeeshop, or food truck NOT using Square. If Square went belly up those vendors may have to forfeit accepting credit cards. I've not seen a more affordable competitor.
- freehunter 11y ago
  I've even seen these things being sold at Walmart and other supermarkets. I go to craft shows and see normal people accepting credit cards to sell their knitting and their quilts. It's really opened a whole new market. I can't imagine them going under, what life would be like after that.
jsn117 11y ago
problem is they already have all the food trucks, where else can they (realistically) expand to?
amckenna 11y ago
They are competing with the big unseen giants like First Data (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Data https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Data) who owns clover. Square has a small part of the pie. They may be used by food trucks, small vendors, and people at the local farmers market but where the real money is coming in there are established players already.

minimaxir 11y ago

> If they figure out how to hang on to this market and grow as these little vendors grow then they're in good shape. Now that Square is a public company with shareholders, the Silicon Valley mantra of growth-at-all-costs no longer generally applies, instead the focus is on profitability/ROI. Which is something that Square lacks, and is in an industry with slim margins already.

marrone12 11y ago

The big competitors are Shopkeep and Revel. However, neither of them are public and likely aren't going to soon given the state of the industry.

strictnein 11y ago
PayPal is in this market as well: https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/credit-card-reader https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/credit-card-reader
- cptskippy 11y ago
  I've only ever seen three of those in my entire life, they're all locked in a cabinet behind me gathering dust. On the other hand I paid for something with Square just yesterday and as my card was being swiped the lady said "We're excited because we're suppose to get the new Chip reader from Square next week."
- randomsearch 11y ago
  > PayPal is in this market as well: This reminds me of Peter Thiel's thoughts on monopolies. Square are in competition with every payment method of every kind. They are not in some tiny "niche" category of payment that will somehow remain invulnerable to competition from banks, Apple Pay, Android Pay, Stripe, etc. etc. I don't see how they can possibly survive in the long-term.

Retric 11y ago

There market cap is ~3 Billion which generally suggests a fairly large company. If managed well they can probably grow 10x over the next decade, but that may already be factored into there stock price.

misiti3780 11y ago

i live in manhattan and see a lot of vendors (though not usually food) accept payments through hardware that is not square. same technology, just not square

dasil003 11y ago

If the tech bubble bursts I'm not sure who is going to be buying the $15, undersized lunches that the new wave of food trucks is flooding the market with.

JBReefer 11y ago
Maybe in SF, but not in the rest of the world. Even here in Silicon Alley, we're a small piece of a very large pie.
- anjc 11y ago
  It's the opposite surely. Some of the companies and concepts that seem to survive in SF are considered barmey in other wealthy western cities. Startups whose customers are other startups..
blhack 11y ago
The $3 oversized lunch that comes on a food truck that serves mexican food and primarily seems to service factories and the like uses square too, btw.

pbreit 11y ago

Itself. It is deploying tons of resources on non-core activities like scheduling & food delivery. All the ceding online payments to Stripe, being last to release an Apple Pay terminal and having almost no international business.

rhino369 11y ago

The other big question is whether that small market for street merchants is really enough to justify the stock price. I'm sure you can build a great business in that market, but is it a 3 billion dollar business?

bunderbunder 11y ago
It's not just street merchants. At least in my area it's also steadily taking over at independent brick-and-mortar businesses too.

estel 11y ago

> The big question is - who is Square competing with. There's a bunch internationally where Square hasn't really begun to compete.

potatolicious 11y ago

> "The big question is - who is Square competing with." Anecdotally, tons of other people. Looking at the coffee shops and smaller stores in my area there's a pretty wide array of iPad-POS systems in use that aren't Square. In fact where I am (NYC) I'd wager that Square holds a plurality of that market rather than the majority. Most of their frontends (in so far as I have to interact with them as a customer) aren't quite as slick as Square's, but they do get the job done, and presumably vendors use them because they're cheaper, which only underscores how fragile Square's business is. These third party solutions aren't as sexy or slick as Square, but ultimately when it comes to payment processing sexiness is very, very far down the list of priorities. It's also worth noting that there are big juggernauts moving in on Square's territory of physical transactions - PayPal being one - who already run enormous electronic payment volume. Stripe also has a big piece of the electronic payments pie and can potentially move in on Square's territory, while Square has so far been unable to branch out beyond physical payments.

ryanSrich 11y ago

Exactly my thoughts. In fact I can't remember the last time I saw a restaurant, coffeeshop, or food truck NOT using Square. If Square went belly up those vendors may have to forfeit accepting credit cards. I've not seen a more affordable competitor.

freehunter 11y ago
I've even seen these things being sold at Walmart and other supermarkets. I go to craft shows and see normal people accepting credit cards to sell their knitting and their quilts. It's really opened a whole new market. I can't imagine them going under, what life would be like after that.

jsn117 11y ago

problem is they already have all the food trucks, where else can they (realistically) expand to?

amckenna 11y ago

They are competing with the big unseen giants like First Data (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Data https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Data) who owns clover. Square has a small part of the pie. They may be used by food trucks, small vendors, and people at the local farmers market but where the real money is coming in there are established players already.