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I can sympathize greatly. I played around a bit creating an isomorphic "framework for frameworks" to explore some techniques I didn't get to use in my day-to-da

I can sympathize greatly. I played around a bit creating an isomorphic "framework for frameworks" to explore some techniques I didn't get to use in my day-to-day. There is a constant tension between leaky abstractions and expressing functionality meant to run in very different environments that I personally am taking years to fully grok [0]. Of course, unlike the meteor folks, I'm doing it for fun, so there is no pressure to make any money doing it on my end. [0] for instance, I made it trivial to invoke client functions asynchronously from server code using normal call syntax. Now how to deal with timeouts? The syntax doesn't permit much without leaking, destroying the original point.

al2o3cr 11y ago
See also Martin Fowler's "First Law of Distributed Objects" - "Don't distribute your objects". The reasoning is exactly as you described.
goldenkey 11y ago
Off topic but is there a reason I keep seeing this word 'grok' used all over HN? Just say 'understand' unless there's a reason to sound like you have aspergers. And 'fully grok' is redundant anyhow - grok implies a full and deep low level understanding with no lapses, you cannot partially grok something. It's dissapointing to see uncommon words used in poor ways, I'm seeing this word misused all over HN as if its now a cult jargon.
- brandonmenc 11y ago
  jargonfile or gtfo There's nothing wrong with saying "grok."
  - goldenkey 11y ago
    "Grok" in is original use is something more like a deep and complete understanding. Here is Heinlein's explanation from "Stranger in a Strange Land": "Grok means to understand so thoroughly that the observer becomes a part of the observed—to merge, blend, intermarry, lose identity in group experience. It means almost everything that we mean by religion, philosophy, and science—and it means as little to us (because of our Earthling assumptions) as color means to a blind man." But 'grok' is supposed to mean something more like understand various arbitrary things at a low and intimate level, not at a high level.
- oldmanjay 11y ago
  I apologize for the redundancy in my phrasing. Hopefully you can get over it. I do not appreciate you using "Aspergers" with an insulting tone.
- erbo 11y ago
  The more correct way to say "fully grok" would be "grok in fullness," anyhow. It is possible to grok but not in fullness; Valentine Michael Smith said this once in the book ("I grok but not in fullness"). I'd say it's been live jargon ever since Stranger came out, jumping from SF to the tech world as things often do, and I'm pleased to see it survive despite the modern distaste for Heinlein in many (but not all) SF circles.
deleted 11y ago
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tboyd47 11y ago
It took me a long time to realize this and in some ways I'm still realizing it. "Isomorphic" or "Universal" are fancy terms for dual execution. Your code is run on the client and server. It has technically been possible ever since Node came out, but the problem is that client-side and server-side code interact with different APIs and carry out different tasks with them. The inputs and outputs are different so the code ends up different, even if written in the same language and even with the same design patterns. TL;DR: JS on Client + JS on server != JS everywhere. It's hard to understand this.

al2o3cr 11y ago

See also Martin Fowler's "First Law of Distributed Objects" - "Don't distribute your objects". The reasoning is exactly as you described.

goldenkey 11y ago

Off topic but is there a reason I keep seeing this word 'grok' used all over HN? Just say 'understand' unless there's a reason to sound like you have aspergers. And 'fully grok' is redundant anyhow - grok implies a full and deep low level understanding with no lapses, you cannot partially grok something. It's dissapointing to see uncommon words used in poor ways, I'm seeing this word misused all over HN as if its now a cult jargon.

brandonmenc 11y ago
jargonfile or gtfo There's nothing wrong with saying "grok."
- goldenkey 11y ago
  "Grok" in is original use is something more like a deep and complete understanding. Here is Heinlein's explanation from "Stranger in a Strange Land": "Grok means to understand so thoroughly that the observer becomes a part of the observed—to merge, blend, intermarry, lose identity in group experience. It means almost everything that we mean by religion, philosophy, and science—and it means as little to us (because of our Earthling assumptions) as color means to a blind man." But 'grok' is supposed to mean something more like understand various arbitrary things at a low and intimate level, not at a high level.
oldmanjay 11y ago
I apologize for the redundancy in my phrasing. Hopefully you can get over it. I do not appreciate you using "Aspergers" with an insulting tone.
erbo 11y ago
The more correct way to say "fully grok" would be "grok in fullness," anyhow. It is possible to grok but not in fullness; Valentine Michael Smith said this once in the book ("I grok but not in fullness"). I'd say it's been live jargon ever since Stranger came out, jumping from SF to the tech world as things often do, and I'm pleased to see it survive despite the modern distaste for Heinlein in many (but not all) SF circles.

deleted 11y ago

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tboyd47 11y ago

It took me a long time to realize this and in some ways I'm still realizing it. "Isomorphic" or "Universal" are fancy terms for dual execution. Your code is run on the client and server. It has technically been possible ever since Node came out, but the problem is that client-side and server-side code interact with different APIs and carry out different tasks with them. The inputs and outputs are different so the code ends up different, even if written in the same language and even with the same design patterns. TL;DR: JS on Client + JS on server != JS everywhere. It's hard to understand this.