8 ms·

I work at a company where we hire people for exactly that kind of gig, with a heavy focus on building prototypes of your designs that are actually usable becaus

by GuiA 11y ago

I work at a company where we hire people for exactly that kind of gig, with a heavy focus on building prototypes of your designs that are actually usable because that's the only viable way to design interfaces. Here's feedback as to why I'm not sending this website to my studio lead to schedule a phone screen with the designer: 1) reused assets from other companies (big no no, even for just a mockup) that are inconsistent with the overall visual style of the project 2) very implausible interactions that were clearly not prototyped (eg the 6 finger pinch... what?!) 3) work heavily inspired from other research projects and designs (10 GUI, various tiling window managers, etc) without showing a clear unifying interaction model. This is more of a patchwork of loosely related ideas, and to me doesn't show clear, deep understanding of prior work (both academic and commercial) in the covered areas. 4) awkward copy that jumps from marketing-style speak to explaining interactions from an analytical point of view. This is the most minor of all points but just hurts the polish of the piece. So this tells me that the candidate is not a strong graphic designer, not a strong prototyper, nor a strong researcher. He's looking for an internship so only one of the three with promises in the other two would be sufficient, but that's not apparent enough to me here. Hope that's constructive - I see a fair number of such portfolios/resumes every month. EDIT: lots of hate on my comment below. The main point seems to be "well you're not totally wrong, but he's a 21 year old intern". Sure, although that doesn't change any of my feedback. I am assessing the work as it stands on its own merits, independently of the designer's age. There is certain work on which 21 year old interns don't have a lot to contribute on, such as redesigning entire OS user interfaces. When it comes to assessing a designer's skills, I prefer to see a series of small, focused pieces rather than one large, sprawling one (the latter is much harder to pull of well unless you have tons of experience). I'm looking forward to looking at how his work has evolved a few years from now.

thecosas 11y ago
+1 for #2. 6 fingers for what will likely be a fairly regular action is clunky at best. The way it's illustrated makes me think it was more along the lines of a board you stand at and not a desktop.
doyoulikeworms 11y ago
I have no experience in your field, but I'm very surprised to hear that this isn't worth a phone screen for a 21 year old. Tough industry!
- orliesaurus 11y ago
  +1 I thought it was quite impressive until reading that comment from someone who works in the design field!
  - elliotec 11y ago
    Don't believe that guy, it's still impressive.
    - ctstover 11y ago
      Of course design people* don't like good concept art for a tiling wm. It's not "modern", emphasizes work instead pointless high rez stock photos, and acknowledges the desktop. *not all design people, just a certain flavor
      - GuiA 11y ago
        1. I'm actually a big fan of tiling WMs, I use xmonad on my personal archlinux laptop. 2. "concept art" for a tiling wm makes no sense, because as you point out, it is first and foremost something that is work focused. This is why you build functional prototypes.
        webkike 11y ago
        I see you're also a big fan of numbered lists. Concept art for a tiling window manager certainly does make sense. Especially if you want to define the appearance of one.
- EC1 11y ago
  It is, he's just finding reasons to be an asshole. It's only tough because people like him make it needlessly tough due to some inferiority complex.
tyrust 11y ago
>So this tells me that the candidate is not a strong graphic designer, not a strong prototyper, nor a strong researcher. I'm not a graphic designer nor do I hire them, but your conclusion seems overly dramatic. Perhaps this prototype does not meet your high bar, but that does not mean that the candidate overall is not qualified. It just means that this particular work did not demonstrate these skills to your satisfaction. The candidate might have these skills and dismissing them after one prototype seems to be setting yourself up for many false negatives.
- FLUX-YOU 11y ago
  If he's in charge of some super high level design boutique charging millions to customers that everyone is murdering kittens to get into, then I can understand his position. 4 critiques is not bad for a student/internship piece. Most students simultaneously do not have deep knowledge of prior work and are also (one of) strong designer or prototyper or researcher because those things simply take time/experience to get. His bar to me seems like "entry-level position, 12 years JavaScript experience required" but for UX/UI
- true_religion 11y ago
  I think he's qualified to be an intern, I don't think he's strong in any particular area. However that's not an issue, since he's a student. Experience, and further learning will make him absolutely exception in a single area or multiple ones. However that's speaking in comparison to everyone else in the world. In comparison to other students, he's done a fairly good job.
- hitekker 11y ago
  As the top-level reply to that person's comment pointed out, the post stems from insecurity, plain and simple.
ianstormtaylor 11y ago
I don't believe your comment was intended to be constructive at all. It sounds much more like jealousy and looking for an excuse to tear down someone who's put in great effort. The concept and presentation of it are definitely impressive, especially for someone who's only 21 and still looking for internship-level work. He's easily in the top 5%, probably top 1% of designers, in terms of being able to see a complicated concept through from ideation to execution. #1 — There's nothing wrong with using assets from other companies like Amazon, Facebook, Wikipedia, etc. in a concept mockup. If anything, it's nice to see realistic assets being used instead of stock junk that won't actually work in real-world situations. #2 — Yup, the 6-finger-pinch would probably be too convoluted, I agree. But that's easily replaced with a regular pinch. Easy to get little details like this wrong in the scheme of things, especially for the more minor gestures. #3 — Who cares? If anything this shows that he knows about what's out there in terms of prior art, and is able to build on it in an inspiring way. That's a good sign in my book, not a deal breaker. #4 — The fact that he was able to put together this page, with all of the marketing copy, and the well-design screenshots (with zooming), etc. already shows that for a visual and interaction designer he's way ahead of the curve in terms of marketing. I'm not saying the concept is perfect, but it's definitely well presented, and well thought out. Add in the fact that the designer is 21 and looking for an internship, and he is an absolutely obvious candidate for a phone screen. I'd be surprised if he isn't able to land internships with any of the big tech companies (Apple, Google, Facebook, etc.) with this piece as part of a larger portfolio. He's clearly good at coming up with, polishing, and communicating ideas.
- throwaway45842 11y ago
  I agree. This is the typical kind of comment you'll get from anyone who gets a bunch of people they have to vet or say no to. It's the same reason VC's don't really have much vision. I find the poster's "reasons" to be completely spurious. This presentation got to the #1 spot on HN, which is more than the person offering the "constructive" criticism ever would do. I would never work with the person in our thread, but it's obvious that it's easy to do great work with the person who made this presentation. They have vision. I wouldn't give them an internship, I'd give them $1 million (make them CEO) and a pipeline of six great hires. But that's just me. in sum - http://imgur.com/d2DvlTk http://imgur.com/d2DvlTk
dopamean 11y ago
> the candidate is not a strong graphic designer, not a strong prototyper, nor a strong researcher. The candidate is 21 years old and looking for an internship. Would you really expect them to be strong at any of those. It seems he/she does have some strengths doesn't it? Would it not be useful to focus on those and see how the others could be developed? Your reply really doesn't come off as an attempt to be constructive. It comes off as someone with a bit of knowledge about the field wanting to demonstrate that for strangers on the internet by tearing someone's work down.
- ethanbond 11y ago
  The ability to just pull a project of this scale to completion is something that virtually no 21 year old has. That alone is worth something to a company with some sense. There's obviously a strong foundation for the hard skills (like visual design or prototyping or copywriting) that can be easily built upon in the field. That's the whole point of an internship: find a hard worker with a good foundation, teach them how to succeed in your company. Not sure what the hell parent comment's problem is.
  - teknologist 11y ago
    > The ability to just pull a project of this scale to completion is something that virtually no 21 year old has. Undergrad final year projects demand a similar investment of time, effort and view of the big picture. It's something we do in the UK - not sure about the US and others.
    - ethanbond 11y ago
      Yes, you are also paying/being graded on the work. That's a whole lot of direct incentive that isn't present for a project like this.
rsync 11y ago
"Here's feedback as to why I'm not sending this website to my studio lead to schedule a phone screen with the designer:" Just curious ... how many of the folks that you have sent to your studio lead have had their project at the #1 spot on the front page of HN with 100+ comments ?
- nitrogen 11y ago
  I've had personal work reach HN with lots of votes and comments that went nearly nowhere. I would have killed (metaphorically) to get concrete criticism like this; that's way more valuable than the votes.
snickmy 11y ago
I'd love to know for who you are working for.
- nsxwolf 11y ago
  Some place with such incredibly awesome design that this isn't even worth a quick phone chat about a lousy unpaid internship. Whatever this place is, they must have standards even higher than Apple's or Google's.
- sccxy 11y ago
  Looks like these companies where you need 10 years of experience in Sketch/Node/SCSS for junior position.
mortenjorck 11y ago
You have some fair points. Personally, I would not discount the conceptual sprawl of the piece – I think it's in some ways an unavoidable part of a solo project to re-think something as broad as a general-purpose computing UI. When I was working on 10/GUI, I don't think it quite occurred to me just how disconnected the hardware / pointing part and the window management part were. At the time, they seemed largely inseparable because I had this big idea of how the whole system should work, and it wasn't until I started reading feedback that I realized just how readily the window manager part could be adapted to stand on its own. DesktopNeo has some more promising ideas (there's some really good thought iterating on full-height window workflows) and some less promising (some of the more awkward gestures), but it's a strong showing overall.
- Nexxxeh 11y ago
  So he can quote the creator of 10/GUI, "DesktopNeo has some more promising ideas (there's some really good thought iterating on full-height window workflows)... it's a strong showing overall."
- criddell 11y ago
  Touch seems great on a phone or tablet, but I absolutely don't want it on my desktop or even laptop computer (I have a Thinkpad with a touch screen). Small gestures work well on a touchpad (well on Apple touchpads at least) and bigger gestures could be picked up by the camera. But I have no desire to drag my fingers across the screen. Fingerprints on a monitor are the worst.
shapov 11y ago
Seems like you have the bar set pretty high for what you consider to be a good designer. Would you mind sharing some of the work your studio does? I am by no means a designer, but from an outsider's perspective(after all designs are consumed by regular folk like myself, not necessarily other designers) Lennart's work seems pretty well done. Especially considering that he is at the very start of his career.
baconizer 11y ago
wow, speechlessly dyslexia, as in : you can you up, no can no BB..
supercoder 11y ago
Your company is probably doing it wrong if this guy isn't worth an interview.
SonicSoul 11y ago
would be funny if this guy became the next Jonathan Ive so we could see this feedback in a different light 10 years from now.
- wang_li 11y ago
  I'm perhaps in a minority here, but Jon Ive isn't that great. I mean my iphone should have a notice/indicator light on the front. It wouldn't have been that hard to put an LED behind the glass so that if I leave my phone in the other room and I receive a message or something, then simply walking past my phone, the blinking light will catch my attention.
  - JBReefer 11y ago
    Right, but this way to check your messages, you pick your phone up and interact with it constantly. That's good for Apple.
  - fooster 11y ago
    One of the most widely respected and awarded designer in the world... not that great. Perhaps you should re-evaluate your measure of greatness?
  - supercoder 11y ago
    Who is a good designer then ?
  - epaga 11y ago
    "Let me put it this way - ever heard of Plato? Socrates? Morons."
  - eanzenberg 11y ago
    I had this feature in my old blackberry. It sounds like a good idea but it ends up making me tense every time I see the thing blink. I much rather like checking my notifications on my terms by turning on the screen.
  - SonicSoul 11y ago
Outdoorsman 11y ago
>4) awkward copy that jumps from marketing-style speak to explaining interactions from an analytical point of view. This is the most minor of all points but just hurts the polish of the piece.< This is important, and often separates the good from the bad...can't count the number of websites I've visited, or products I've considered buying, where I was stopped short because of marketing that appears to have been hastily constructed, or that undervalued consistency in presentation... That always puts my head on a swivel--are the ideas being presented, the product being sold, etc., of actual value, when the front-end appears thrown together, or carelessly edited? You don't do an admitted novice a favor by pulling punches...they deserve honest feedback...they can aggregate opinions, and come to their own conclusions as to how to move forward...that's crowd-sourcing in a nutshell, right?
connorshea 11y ago
>So this tells me that the candidate is not a strong graphic designer, not a strong prototyper, nor a strong researcher. Oh please, he's certainly a strong graphic designer, by the looks of the website he certainly has web development abilities, and if you want people with so much previous experience, I don't see why you even feel the need to rip this guy apart. I have my own complaints with parts of the design, but overall it shows a lot of hard work, a lot of great ideas, and a hell of a lot of creativity. He'd be incredibly valuable for any company lucky enough to pick him up.
danneu 11y ago
The ol HN trope where someone tries to wow the rest of us by pointing out just how unimpressed they are. Even snuck in an edit to try and disarm future criticism by preempting it. Bravo.
readymade 11y ago
What's the name of your company?
ThomPete 11y ago
As someone who have also seen my fair share of portfolios (used to run a fairly large design agency in Denmark) I am trying to understand what part is of your critique is constructive. It basically boils down to. You are no good enough. This is hardly constructive criticism at all thats just criticism. I will gladly forward his portfolio to anyone looking for an intern. It should be fairly easy to assess in an interview whether this guy is the real deal or not. And if he is he got a great future in front of him.

by GuiA 11y ago

thecosas 11y ago

+1 for #2. 6 fingers for what will likely be a fairly regular action is clunky at best. The way it's illustrated makes me think it was more along the lines of a board you stand at and not a desktop.

doyoulikeworms 11y ago

I have no experience in your field, but I'm very surprised to hear that this isn't worth a phone screen for a 21 year old. Tough industry!

orliesaurus 11y ago
+1 I thought it was quite impressive until reading that comment from someone who works in the design field!
- elliotec 11y ago
  Don't believe that guy, it's still impressive.
  - ctstover 11y ago
    Of course design people* don't like good concept art for a tiling wm. It's not "modern", emphasizes work instead pointless high rez stock photos, and acknowledges the desktop. *not all design people, just a certain flavor
    - GuiA 11y ago
      1. I'm actually a big fan of tiling WMs, I use xmonad on my personal archlinux laptop. 2. "concept art" for a tiling wm makes no sense, because as you point out, it is first and foremost something that is work focused. This is why you build functional prototypes.
      - webkike 11y ago
        I see you're also a big fan of numbered lists. Concept art for a tiling window manager certainly does make sense. Especially if you want to define the appearance of one.
EC1 11y ago
It is, he's just finding reasons to be an asshole. It's only tough because people like him make it needlessly tough due to some inferiority complex.

tyrust 11y ago

>So this tells me that the candidate is not a strong graphic designer, not a strong prototyper, nor a strong researcher. I'm not a graphic designer nor do I hire them, but your conclusion seems overly dramatic. Perhaps this prototype does not meet your high bar, but that does not mean that the candidate overall is not qualified. It just means that this particular work did not demonstrate these skills to your satisfaction. The candidate might have these skills and dismissing them after one prototype seems to be setting yourself up for many false negatives.

FLUX-YOU 11y ago
If he's in charge of some super high level design boutique charging millions to customers that everyone is murdering kittens to get into, then I can understand his position. 4 critiques is not bad for a student/internship piece. Most students simultaneously do not have deep knowledge of prior work and are also (one of) strong designer or prototyper or researcher because those things simply take time/experience to get. His bar to me seems like "entry-level position, 12 years JavaScript experience required" but for UX/UI
true_religion 11y ago
I think he's qualified to be an intern, I don't think he's strong in any particular area. However that's not an issue, since he's a student. Experience, and further learning will make him absolutely exception in a single area or multiple ones. However that's speaking in comparison to everyone else in the world. In comparison to other students, he's done a fairly good job.
hitekker 11y ago
As the top-level reply to that person's comment pointed out, the post stems from insecurity, plain and simple.

ianstormtaylor 11y ago

I don't believe your comment was intended to be constructive at all. It sounds much more like jealousy and looking for an excuse to tear down someone who's put in great effort. The concept and presentation of it are definitely impressive, especially for someone who's only 21 and still looking for internship-level work. He's easily in the top 5%, probably top 1% of designers, in terms of being able to see a complicated concept through from ideation to execution. #1 — There's nothing wrong with using assets from other companies like Amazon, Facebook, Wikipedia, etc. in a concept mockup. If anything, it's nice to see realistic assets being used instead of stock junk that won't actually work in real-world situations. #2 — Yup, the 6-finger-pinch would probably be too convoluted, I agree. But that's easily replaced with a regular pinch. Easy to get little details like this wrong in the scheme of things, especially for the more minor gestures. #3 — Who cares? If anything this shows that he knows about what's out there in terms of prior art, and is able to build on it in an inspiring way. That's a good sign in my book, not a deal breaker. #4 — The fact that he was able to put together this page, with all of the marketing copy, and the well-design screenshots (with zooming), etc. already shows that for a visual and interaction designer he's way ahead of the curve in terms of marketing. I'm not saying the concept is perfect, but it's definitely well presented, and well thought out. Add in the fact that the designer is 21 and looking for an internship, and he is an absolutely obvious candidate for a phone screen. I'd be surprised if he isn't able to land internships with any of the big tech companies (Apple, Google, Facebook, etc.) with this piece as part of a larger portfolio. He's clearly good at coming up with, polishing, and communicating ideas.

throwaway45842 11y ago
I agree. This is the typical kind of comment you'll get from anyone who gets a bunch of people they have to vet or say no to. It's the same reason VC's don't really have much vision. I find the poster's "reasons" to be completely spurious. This presentation got to the #1 spot on HN, which is more than the person offering the "constructive" criticism ever would do. I would never work with the person in our thread, but it's obvious that it's easy to do great work with the person who made this presentation. They have vision. I wouldn't give them an internship, I'd give them $1 million (make them CEO) and a pipeline of six great hires. But that's just me. in sum - http://imgur.com/d2DvlTk http://imgur.com/d2DvlTk

dopamean 11y ago

> the candidate is not a strong graphic designer, not a strong prototyper, nor a strong researcher. The candidate is 21 years old and looking for an internship. Would you really expect them to be strong at any of those. It seems he/she does have some strengths doesn't it? Would it not be useful to focus on those and see how the others could be developed? Your reply really doesn't come off as an attempt to be constructive. It comes off as someone with a bit of knowledge about the field wanting to demonstrate that for strangers on the internet by tearing someone's work down.

ethanbond 11y ago
The ability to just pull a project of this scale to completion is something that virtually no 21 year old has. That alone is worth something to a company with some sense. There's obviously a strong foundation for the hard skills (like visual design or prototyping or copywriting) that can be easily built upon in the field. That's the whole point of an internship: find a hard worker with a good foundation, teach them how to succeed in your company. Not sure what the hell parent comment's problem is.
- teknologist 11y ago
  > The ability to just pull a project of this scale to completion is something that virtually no 21 year old has. Undergrad final year projects demand a similar investment of time, effort and view of the big picture. It's something we do in the UK - not sure about the US and others.
  - ethanbond 11y ago
    Yes, you are also paying/being graded on the work. That's a whole lot of direct incentive that isn't present for a project like this.

rsync 11y ago

"Here's feedback as to why I'm not sending this website to my studio lead to schedule a phone screen with the designer:" Just curious ... how many of the folks that you have sent to your studio lead have had their project at the #1 spot on the front page of HN with 100+ comments ?

nitrogen 11y ago
I've had personal work reach HN with lots of votes and comments that went nearly nowhere. I would have killed (metaphorically) to get concrete criticism like this; that's way more valuable than the votes.

snickmy 11y ago

I'd love to know for who you are working for.

nsxwolf 11y ago
Some place with such incredibly awesome design that this isn't even worth a quick phone chat about a lousy unpaid internship. Whatever this place is, they must have standards even higher than Apple's or Google's.
sccxy 11y ago
Looks like these companies where you need 10 years of experience in Sketch/Node/SCSS for junior position.

mortenjorck 11y ago

You have some fair points. Personally, I would not discount the conceptual sprawl of the piece – I think it's in some ways an unavoidable part of a solo project to re-think something as broad as a general-purpose computing UI. When I was working on 10/GUI, I don't think it quite occurred to me just how disconnected the hardware / pointing part and the window management part were. At the time, they seemed largely inseparable because I had this big idea of how the whole system should work, and it wasn't until I started reading feedback that I realized just how readily the window manager part could be adapted to stand on its own. DesktopNeo has some more promising ideas (there's some really good thought iterating on full-height window workflows) and some less promising (some of the more awkward gestures), but it's a strong showing overall.

Nexxxeh 11y ago
So he can quote the creator of 10/GUI, "DesktopNeo has some more promising ideas (there's some really good thought iterating on full-height window workflows)... it's a strong showing overall."
criddell 11y ago
Touch seems great on a phone or tablet, but I absolutely don't want it on my desktop or even laptop computer (I have a Thinkpad with a touch screen). Small gestures work well on a touchpad (well on Apple touchpads at least) and bigger gestures could be picked up by the camera. But I have no desire to drag my fingers across the screen. Fingerprints on a monitor are the worst.

shapov 11y ago

Seems like you have the bar set pretty high for what you consider to be a good designer. Would you mind sharing some of the work your studio does? I am by no means a designer, but from an outsider's perspective(after all designs are consumed by regular folk like myself, not necessarily other designers) Lennart's work seems pretty well done. Especially considering that he is at the very start of his career.

baconizer 11y ago

wow, speechlessly dyslexia, as in : you can you up, no can no BB..

supercoder 11y ago

Your company is probably doing it wrong if this guy isn't worth an interview.

SonicSoul 11y ago

would be funny if this guy became the next Jonathan Ive so we could see this feedback in a different light 10 years from now.

wang_li 11y ago
I'm perhaps in a minority here, but Jon Ive isn't that great. I mean my iphone should have a notice/indicator light on the front. It wouldn't have been that hard to put an LED behind the glass so that if I leave my phone in the other room and I receive a message or something, then simply walking past my phone, the blinking light will catch my attention.
- JBReefer 11y ago
  Right, but this way to check your messages, you pick your phone up and interact with it constantly. That's good for Apple.
- fooster 11y ago
  One of the most widely respected and awarded designer in the world... not that great. Perhaps you should re-evaluate your measure of greatness?
- supercoder 11y ago
  Who is a good designer then ?
- epaga 11y ago
  "Let me put it this way - ever heard of Plato? Socrates? Morons."
- eanzenberg 11y ago
  I had this feature in my old blackberry. It sounds like a good idea but it ends up making me tense every time I see the thing blink. I much rather like checking my notifications on my terms by turning on the screen.
- SonicSoul 11y ago

Outdoorsman 11y ago

>4) awkward copy that jumps from marketing-style speak to explaining interactions from an analytical point of view. This is the most minor of all points but just hurts the polish of the piece.< This is important, and often separates the good from the bad...can't count the number of websites I've visited, or products I've considered buying, where I was stopped short because of marketing that appears to have been hastily constructed, or that undervalued consistency in presentation... That always puts my head on a swivel--are the ideas being presented, the product being sold, etc., of actual value, when the front-end appears thrown together, or carelessly edited? You don't do an admitted novice a favor by pulling punches...they deserve honest feedback...they can aggregate opinions, and come to their own conclusions as to how to move forward...that's crowd-sourcing in a nutshell, right?

connorshea 11y ago

>So this tells me that the candidate is not a strong graphic designer, not a strong prototyper, nor a strong researcher. Oh please, he's certainly a strong graphic designer, by the looks of the website he certainly has web development abilities, and if you want people with so much previous experience, I don't see why you even feel the need to rip this guy apart. I have my own complaints with parts of the design, but overall it shows a lot of hard work, a lot of great ideas, and a hell of a lot of creativity. He'd be incredibly valuable for any company lucky enough to pick him up.

danneu 11y ago

The ol HN trope where someone tries to wow the rest of us by pointing out just how unimpressed they are. Even snuck in an edit to try and disarm future criticism by preempting it. Bravo.

readymade 11y ago

What's the name of your company?

ThomPete 11y ago

As someone who have also seen my fair share of portfolios (used to run a fairly large design agency in Denmark) I am trying to understand what part is of your critique is constructive. It basically boils down to. You are no good enough. This is hardly constructive criticism at all thats just criticism. I will gladly forward his portfolio to anyone looking for an intern. It should be fairly easy to assess in an interview whether this guy is the real deal or not. And if he is he got a great future in front of him.