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>Tesla has a strange way of communicating with customers I think is best described as customer service vaporware. That is, they spend more time trying to create

>Tesla has a strange way of communicating with customers I think is best described as customer service vaporware. That is, they spend more time trying to create the illusion of customer service, rather than actually providing it. There is no mechanism for them to get feedback, as I tried to provide, so its difficult to see how they can improve if they don’t know where they are going wrong. Now we find out the unexpected corporate benefit of not having showrooms or physical locations by which to service clients - if they can't walk into your place of business and make a scene, just consider them a happy customer! >In my experience, its a hobby masquerading as a company, and it can probably run as a hobbyist organization for some time. This is the gut feeling I get with every over-the-top announcement by Tesla. Frequently I get down-voted here for griping about the linguistic flourishes in Tesla announcements, but I have my reasons. Sure, creating a neat innovation or clever door opening apparatus is impressive and all, and great for show, but the boring part of pulling it off reliably XX,XXX times is a totally different animal. Also, a corporation where everybody is too on eggshells to point out that the boss lifted a customer's car and they're too scared to engage either the CEO or the customer is, for lack of a better concept, high-school-level drama lameness.

mikeash 11y ago
They've built over 100,000 vehicles, built out a massive nationwide charging network (plus a huge network in Europe and a decent-sized one in China), produced the best highway auto-drive system available today, and currently have the best selling car in their price segment in many areas. Yes, clever doors and gimmicks like their new Summon feature aren't worth the hype they put into them, but that's not the only thing they're doing. That's not a hobby company by any stretch of the imagination. Yeah, they have problems. Specifically, communications during the delivery process has always been troublesome for them, and there's no reason it should be. But that doesn't make it a "hobbyist organization." That's just silly. I mean, GM's failed processes meant that their products spontaneously shut off and killed people, and they sat on their hands doing nothing while people were still dying, but we don't call that a "hobbyist organization...."
- 6stringmerc 11y ago
  Oh I know they sell a lot of cars, I've seen hundreds if not a thousand locally since the debut. >That's not a hobby company by any stretch of the imagination. Yeah, they have problems. Specifically, communications during the delivery process has always been troublesome for them, and there's no reason it should be. But that doesn't make it a "hobbyist organization." That's just silly. Based on the descriptions of the behavior of Tesla's internal customer service, it actually sounds worse than a hobbyist organization. This is personal perspective though, based on multiple professional and grunt-level jobs over the years. >I mean, GM's failed processes meant that their products spontaneously shut off and killed people, and they sat on their hands doing nothing while people were still dying, but we don't call that a "hobbyist organization...." GM is, if memory serves correctly, facing significant legal ramifications (monetary) for their bad oversight and will, presumably, be held accountable in court. Like Ford and Firestone. Or Takata. Pretty much every legacy auto manufacturer started off as a 'hobbyist organization' and after enough success and longevity, they grew into large enterprises that we know today. Can Tesla weather a GM-ignition swtich type lawsuit? Maybe, time will tell.
  - mikeash 11y ago
    GM being held accountable is irrelevant here. My point is simply that large organizations we'd never call "hobbyist" do vastly more stupid things than what Tesla has done here. I will note that Tesla did just weather what could have been the equivalent of the GM ignition switch problem. They discovered a problem with the front seat belts which could have easily have been fatal in a crash. They pretty much immediately recalled every single vehicle they had on the road to inspect them. As far as I know the problem only ever existed in the one car where they found it, but they immediately took charge of the problem instead of covering their ears and trying to wish it away until they couldn't. All kinds of companies are dysfunctional in all sorts of ways. That doesn't make it right, but I don't see how the label "hobbyist" applies just because of it.
    - te_chris 11y ago
      As you said though, they've only sold ~100k vehicles and only in select markets. Try doing that to the 3 series, Golf or Corolla.
gtk40 11y ago
They do have showrooms, even if they're not the same as other car manufacturers. See here and sort by Stores & Galleries: https://www.teslamotors.com/findus#/ https://www.teslamotors.com/findus#/ I've visited one nearby. It was small, but had several Teslas inside and out.
- SyneRyder 11y ago
  Yup, I've visited one in Berlin, it's next to the Apple Store. Very small, just the one Tesla, but it was there and had a handful of staff on hand to ask about the car.
Vik1ng 11y ago
Tesla reminds me of Formula Student where teams also would do hilarious stuff like put a phone in the steering wheel (actually was not that bad) or program their car to make donuts on the spot with 4 electric motors and pushing a button. But fun is simply part of the competition and it's not the end of the world if something goes wrong or isn't perfect.
pbreit 11y ago
This incident sounds pretty isolated and exceptional. The post and your reply made me feel kind of nauseated. Just sit back and critique the doers. How lame.
neurotech1 11y ago
There is a difference between Elon Musk having a low tolerance for technical stupidity, and people treading on eggshells to avoid having to report bad news. My guess is that it would have been far better report "We have this issue, and here is our solution" than simply report bad news. It would be likely that Elon didn't just walk over to a particular car at random, but asked for a dealer inventory model, and this particular car was not recorded as "sold" to a customer for whatever reason. Publicly saying "How Elon Musk Stole My Car" probably wouldn't have made it easier to resolve this one more smoothly.

mikeash 11y ago

They've built over 100,000 vehicles, built out a massive nationwide charging network (plus a huge network in Europe and a decent-sized one in China), produced the best highway auto-drive system available today, and currently have the best selling car in their price segment in many areas. Yes, clever doors and gimmicks like their new Summon feature aren't worth the hype they put into them, but that's not the only thing they're doing. That's not a hobby company by any stretch of the imagination. Yeah, they have problems. Specifically, communications during the delivery process has always been troublesome for them, and there's no reason it should be. But that doesn't make it a "hobbyist organization." That's just silly. I mean, GM's failed processes meant that their products spontaneously shut off and killed people, and they sat on their hands doing nothing while people were still dying, but we don't call that a "hobbyist organization...."

6stringmerc 11y ago
Oh I know they sell a lot of cars, I've seen hundreds if not a thousand locally since the debut. >That's not a hobby company by any stretch of the imagination. Yeah, they have problems. Specifically, communications during the delivery process has always been troublesome for them, and there's no reason it should be. But that doesn't make it a "hobbyist organization." That's just silly. Based on the descriptions of the behavior of Tesla's internal customer service, it actually sounds worse than a hobbyist organization. This is personal perspective though, based on multiple professional and grunt-level jobs over the years. >I mean, GM's failed processes meant that their products spontaneously shut off and killed people, and they sat on their hands doing nothing while people were still dying, but we don't call that a "hobbyist organization...." GM is, if memory serves correctly, facing significant legal ramifications (monetary) for their bad oversight and will, presumably, be held accountable in court. Like Ford and Firestone. Or Takata. Pretty much every legacy auto manufacturer started off as a 'hobbyist organization' and after enough success and longevity, they grew into large enterprises that we know today. Can Tesla weather a GM-ignition swtich type lawsuit? Maybe, time will tell.
- mikeash 11y ago
  GM being held accountable is irrelevant here. My point is simply that large organizations we'd never call "hobbyist" do vastly more stupid things than what Tesla has done here. I will note that Tesla did just weather what could have been the equivalent of the GM ignition switch problem. They discovered a problem with the front seat belts which could have easily have been fatal in a crash. They pretty much immediately recalled every single vehicle they had on the road to inspect them. As far as I know the problem only ever existed in the one car where they found it, but they immediately took charge of the problem instead of covering their ears and trying to wish it away until they couldn't. All kinds of companies are dysfunctional in all sorts of ways. That doesn't make it right, but I don't see how the label "hobbyist" applies just because of it.
  - te_chris 11y ago
    As you said though, they've only sold ~100k vehicles and only in select markets. Try doing that to the 3 series, Golf or Corolla.

gtk40 11y ago

They do have showrooms, even if they're not the same as other car manufacturers. See here and sort by Stores & Galleries: https://www.teslamotors.com/findus#/ https://www.teslamotors.com/findus#/ I've visited one nearby. It was small, but had several Teslas inside and out.

SyneRyder 11y ago
Yup, I've visited one in Berlin, it's next to the Apple Store. Very small, just the one Tesla, but it was there and had a handful of staff on hand to ask about the car.

Vik1ng 11y ago

Tesla reminds me of Formula Student where teams also would do hilarious stuff like put a phone in the steering wheel (actually was not that bad) or program their car to make donuts on the spot with 4 electric motors and pushing a button. But fun is simply part of the competition and it's not the end of the world if something goes wrong or isn't perfect.

pbreit 11y ago

This incident sounds pretty isolated and exceptional. The post and your reply made me feel kind of nauseated. Just sit back and critique the doers. How lame.

neurotech1 11y ago

There is a difference between Elon Musk having a low tolerance for technical stupidity, and people treading on eggshells to avoid having to report bad news. My guess is that it would have been far better report "We have this issue, and here is our solution" than simply report bad news. It would be likely that Elon didn't just walk over to a particular car at random, but asked for a dealer inventory model, and this particular car was not recorded as "sold" to a customer for whatever reason. Publicly saying "How Elon Musk Stole My Car" probably wouldn't have made it easier to resolve this one more smoothly.