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Ah, this sort of thing is as old as the moon. We run an eCommerce platform, have a variety of clients using it, they have a number of customers. At least once
by madaxe_again 11y ago
Ah, this sort of thing is as old as the moon.
We run an eCommerce platform, have a variety of clients using it, they have a number of customers. At least once a week we get an accusation either from a client or an end-user of some outlandish nefarious behaviour, usually due to some complete lack of understanding of the nature of technology.
Way back when, we responded, tried to help, tried to explain, but it tends to be the case that if someone has made their mind up, they've made their mind up, and anything you say can and will be used against you - confirmation bias is a harsh mistress.
The best response is usually no response, I'm afraid to say. It's a drain on your time, they won't be any the wiser unless you're prepared to sink serious time into educating a stranger, and more often than not responding results in escalation, and people doing stupid things like involving lawyers and law enforcement.
Case in point: About six years ago, we had an older guy phone us up frothing about how we'd hacked his wife's computer and she'd accidentally bought something from one of our clients. We explained that it would be hard to accidentally enter your address and credit card details, and that if they didn't want the order they should contact the merchant, not the web developer (they clicked our "ecommerce by" link in the footer of the client site - we don't do that any more!). We thought that was that. A week later we got a stern phone call from an ombudsman who wanted to know why we were ignoring the distance selling rules and taking advantage of old people... and they didn't understand that we weren't a merchant, didn't place an order on their behalf, either - so months of time were wasted, and we narrowly avoided ending up in court over a non-issue.
Anyway. When you have a conversation with an idiot, nobody watching can tell which one of you is the idiot.
- xlayn 11y ago"When you have a conversation with an idiot, nobody watching can tell which one of you is the idiot". They are not idiots, they are average people, tech is complex, I wonder if people who have to be told or explain things to represent a market to attend? Imagine, something were you call a number ask for something to be bought; later someone go picking up the money, you perform the purchase and you later deliver. No credit cards, no complex thing to go over.
- madaxe_again 11y agoIf you bellow at a stranger because you don't understand something, you're an idiot, sorry. I'd like to hope an "average" person would not gloss over gaps in their knowledge and jump to a hostile conclusion. In your scenario, say you're the phone company - would you think it reasonable if the customer who called in your example blames you for their having made a call and placed an order, because the phone line must have made the call itself and faked the customer's voice?
- xlayn 11y agoI understand your point, I'm just presenting one of several possible approaches/points of view: -Defensive: Remove links to: "made by" -Reactive: Handle the situation every time it appears. -Proactive: See if this represents an opportunity for you and approach the market. -Not responding. Edit: format and form.
- cookiecaper 11y ago>If you bellow at a stranger because you don't understand something, you're an idiot, sorry. To be fair, the email included in the OP is not really bellowing. She's politely explaining that she found his contact information inside the documentation distributed with the app, and providing screenshots as proof. I think a simple explanation that the name is included only due to technicalities of copyright law and that there is no direct involvement whatsoever is sufficient. After that reply, there is no need to respond further, and almost all lawyers will immediately understand and refuse to proceed with a case. It should also be noted that hosting an ecommerce platform is a lot different from being one of the many low-level libraries employed by the application. It's not necessarily unreasonable to expect an ecommerce processor or host to have reasonable fraud detection schemes in place, and it's certainly plausible that some lawyers would consider suing the ecommerce vendor (especially if the company makes money).
- elorant 11y agoPlease keep in mind that Facebook owns Instagram and these are big companies that you likely don’t want to have a trail of evidence that you are a part of an Instagram and Spotify hacking ring. This sounds like bellowing. It's borderline blackmail. Help me with my request or else I make sure Facebook knows what a scumbag you are. The funny thing about this whole story is that she's not contacting him because she thinks he works at Instagram, which would be an understandable misconception, but instead she thinks he's with the hacking team. You have to be completely imbecile to think of villains answering with their real names.
- JoshTriplett 11y ago> Anyway. When you have a conversation with an idiot, nobody watching can tell which one of you is the idiot. A friend of mine who works as a college professor has a fun approach to deal with the kinds of random cranks who contact him out of the blue seeking someone to validate their wild Time-Cube-style theories and "research": he responds to each one by providing an introduction to the previous one. Apparently, he received followups from some of them afterward saying how much they appreciated the introduction and how much it helped them.
- EdwardCoffin 11y agoThis idea terrifies me even more than it amuses me. The notion of the long-term influence that could be gained by a network of cooperating Time-Cube-style theorists is enough to give me nightmares.
- DanBC 11y agoSee also the Freemen on the land who pass incoherent legal information on to each other.
- cristoperb 11y ago(American readers may be more familiar with the similar "Sovereign Citizen movement": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_citizen_movement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_citizen_movement)
- blowski 11y agoFor a good example of such a case: http://captainranty.com/freeman-shafted-by-clueless-judge-2/ http://captainranty.com/freeman-shafted-by-clueless-judge-2/
- david-given 11y ago...I got halfway through that before realising that the author was actually serious rather than using snark!
- hotgoldminer 11y agoIn my mind this is the best advice - the only I would follow. Don't respond to the raving and incensed. Instead let them pursue remedy with the relevant authority. Then state your case to said authority. All will circle back to the original party, and they'll buy the explanation: authority granted not only because they're the established authority but also because they were independently engaged by the original party.
- theandrewbailey 11y ago> Anyway. When you have a conversation with an idiot, nobody watching can tell which one of you is the idiot. Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
- kazinator 11y agoThe way to explain that is via an analogy. A web site is sort of like an automated cash register. Suppose you bought something in a retail store and when you paid for it, the cashier used a cash register made by the electronics firm Sharp. If you had trouble with the purchase, would you then approach Sharp? Sir, we are like Sharp in this situation. We made the internet version of the "cash register": the web site software which allows the vendor to operate. That software has our name on it and a link to our web site, the same way that a cash register made by Sharp has the Sharp logo. Even though your cash went into a register with the Sharp logo on it doesn't mean you were doing business with Sharp.