4 ms·

Well can we simulate a violin? If so, it seems we could run an optimization algorithm (genetic algorithm, simulated annealing, etc.) to see if the evolution co

Well can we simulate a violin? If so, it seems we could run an optimization algorithm (genetic algorithm, simulated annealing, etc.) to see if the evolution could be continued. Analogous to machine evolved antenna designs (where NEC is the simulator). It's interesting that pre-electronic instrument design was pretty much all about increasing loudness.

analog31 11y ago
I play double bass, and in Chuck Traeger's book on bass repair, he is pretty blunt: "You get paid to be heard." Loudness is definitely a quality factor with a direct influence on price. Instruments with a sweet tone quality, but lacking in volume, are a tough sell, and will often be modified to bring out more sound. With the exception of a few museum pieces, the Strads have all been modified over the years to make them louder, with longer necks and shorter ribs. I suspect the cello edged out the viola da gamba because of volume.
- jhallenworld 11y ago
  Oh, I have to promote my friend Noah's human powered electronic instrument, the "Electric Eel". It's no so easy to have sufficient loudness with even with electronics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8MUgwiZULw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8MUgwiZULw It uses re-purposed printer carriage with stepper motor to generate electricity. With very low latency, the pulse of power boots a synthesizer and powers the audio amp.
  - analog31 11y ago
    Looks like someone sprung a leek.
- mjt0229 11y ago
  +1 for a Chuck Traeger reference on HN. I'm also a double bassist. Agreed about instrument modifications. It's common in the bass world for a big-sounding instrument to be described as a "cannon". That doesn't speak much for having a singing tone! Maybe in the world of violins and cellos that's more important, though.
  - analog31 11y ago
    Well, there's the artillery, and then there's the cavalry, and the infantry. ;-)
- _nato_ 11y ago
  'Just one minor gripe: period instruments -- Strads/Amatis -- that have been upmod'ed, have only been modified with regard to the pitch/angle of the neck. The fingerboard is longer to facilitate the more demanding repertoire, but the neck is certainly the same length. The ribs are not shortened nor elongated in modernizing a period instrument.
  - analog31 11y ago
    Aha. Thanks for those notes.
diydsp 11y ago
Hi, Joe! > increasing loudness. Intriguingly, it hasn't been a continuous upgrade, like computers, etc. There was at least one major stratum in this evolution when patronage for music shifted from the church to the court. With larger audiences required to financially support the music, instruments went through a major shift of amplification to use more metal parts, etc. I also like your idea of continuing to optimize the designs. Some people are also trying different materials like carbon fiber! One issue with the simulations is that people don't comprehend the structure of wood perfectly. It's only recently that researchers have realized the importance to the sound of the wood being a non-continuous material and actually comprised of long, irregularly-shaped grains. Most of the papers I've seen are analyzing instruments and trying to figure out what the salient features are of the design. One more caveat is that it still has to be easily buildable. The current design is excruciatingly difficult and slow. So one thing this illuminates for me is how much instrument design is like biology :)

analog31 11y ago

I play double bass, and in Chuck Traeger's book on bass repair, he is pretty blunt: "You get paid to be heard." Loudness is definitely a quality factor with a direct influence on price. Instruments with a sweet tone quality, but lacking in volume, are a tough sell, and will often be modified to bring out more sound. With the exception of a few museum pieces, the Strads have all been modified over the years to make them louder, with longer necks and shorter ribs. I suspect the cello edged out the viola da gamba because of volume.

jhallenworld 11y ago
Oh, I have to promote my friend Noah's human powered electronic instrument, the "Electric Eel". It's no so easy to have sufficient loudness with even with electronics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8MUgwiZULw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8MUgwiZULw It uses re-purposed printer carriage with stepper motor to generate electricity. With very low latency, the pulse of power boots a synthesizer and powers the audio amp.
- analog31 11y ago
  Looks like someone sprung a leek.
mjt0229 11y ago
+1 for a Chuck Traeger reference on HN. I'm also a double bassist. Agreed about instrument modifications. It's common in the bass world for a big-sounding instrument to be described as a "cannon". That doesn't speak much for having a singing tone! Maybe in the world of violins and cellos that's more important, though.
- analog31 11y ago
  Well, there's the artillery, and then there's the cavalry, and the infantry. ;-)
_nato_ 11y ago
'Just one minor gripe: period instruments -- Strads/Amatis -- that have been upmod'ed, have only been modified with regard to the pitch/angle of the neck. The fingerboard is longer to facilitate the more demanding repertoire, but the neck is certainly the same length. The ribs are not shortened nor elongated in modernizing a period instrument.
- analog31 11y ago
  Aha. Thanks for those notes.

diydsp 11y ago

Hi, Joe! > increasing loudness. Intriguingly, it hasn't been a continuous upgrade, like computers, etc. There was at least one major stratum in this evolution when patronage for music shifted from the church to the court. With larger audiences required to financially support the music, instruments went through a major shift of amplification to use more metal parts, etc. I also like your idea of continuing to optimize the designs. Some people are also trying different materials like carbon fiber! One issue with the simulations is that people don't comprehend the structure of wood perfectly. It's only recently that researchers have realized the importance to the sound of the wood being a non-continuous material and actually comprised of long, irregularly-shaped grains. Most of the papers I've seen are analyzing instruments and trying to figure out what the salient features are of the design. One more caveat is that it still has to be easily buildable. The current design is excruciatingly difficult and slow. So one thing this illuminates for me is how much instrument design is like biology :)