9 ms·

New military automated airdrops will use image recognition instead of GPS

liotier 11y ago
Reminds me of TERCOM's predecessor, DSMAC - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TERCOM#DSMAC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TERCOM#DSMAC
- acveilleux 11y ago
  Yeah, totally thinking of missile terminal guidance. I guess fear of jamming, capture, and the need to keep system costs low is why they're not going for a mapping radar approach instead as that would get them all-weather capabilities.
  - vonmoltke 11y ago
    In addition, a passive system is useful for covert as well as overt drops. An active system isn't.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
daveguy 11y ago
From the article: "The current implementation of JPADS relies on GPS tracking to guide unmanned drops to the correct coordinates, but any deviation from the drop target, which can be caused by wind or other environment factors, can result in the necessity for troops to venture into frontline territory to retrieve the delivery." The image shows a parachute drop. I'm not sure how image recognition will help reduce the impact of wind or other environment factors. It seems like military GPS now in the sub-meter accuracy would be - by far - the best guidance system. Anyone have any insight as to how image recognition is better than GPS or even helps (although article implies replacement)?
- callesgg 11y ago
  It is harder to spoof image recognition guidance, but spoofing is not mentioned as an issue in the article.
  - vanattab 11y ago
    Ah.. I think you might be onto something. An image recognition approach probably does mitigate gps spoofing and jamming attacks. And perhaps they are thinking about china's anti satellite missiles that they tested a few years back.
  - JustSomeNobody 11y ago
    Is it really? The military has been using camo to spoof image recognition since forever. But I guess if this is for drops then camo wouldn't apply?
    - gherkin0 11y ago
      > Is it really? The military has been using camo to spoof image recognition since forever. I don't think so. Camouflage has been used to hide things in the terrain for a long time, but I don't think it's ever been used impersonate a different area's terrain (which I think you'd have to do to "spoof" in this context). Edit: Actually, now that I think about it, I might be wrong. Wartime blackouts could probably be thought of a kind of spoofing camouflage, especially if they put decoy lights in an area away from the city or left lights on in less-critical areas. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackout_%28wartime%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackout_%28wartime%29
      - JustSomeNobody 11y ago
        Was used in Area 51: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/05/110520-area-51-secret-hid-craft-base-declassified-a-12-plane/ http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/05/110520-area-... And while not images per se (though they did use blow up equipment), there's the Ghost Army: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_Army https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_Army Edit: To clarify, the Ghost Army used inflatables not to hide, but to mimick and deceive, but the concept is similar.
Evolved 11y ago
Better link that describes the other concerns about GPS that were brought up and describes in more detail how the system works: http://www.defenseone.com/technology/2016/01/army-testing-robo-parachutes-dont-need-gps/125151/ http://www.defenseone.com/technology/2016/01/army-testing-ro...
- cfcef 11y ago
  > The testing of a GPS-free version of JPADS is yet another example of efforts to develop alternatives to satellite guidance. “GPS is very expensive to launch and operate,” Defense Secretary Ash Carter said during an April 24 podcast from Silicon Valley, according to National Defense magazine. The global positioning system, he said, “makes us vulnerable to attacks, it is impossible to use in the valleys of Afghanistan or in a big city [where signals are blocked], or in places where the signal is poor.” “At DoD, we worry about enemies jamming GPS signals.” Army Maj. Christopher Brown, who helps run the service’s efforts in position, navigation and timing, or PNT, told C4ISR & Networks last year. “Threats to military GPS have evolved and improved at a rapid pace — from a proliferation of small-scale commercial jamming devices that can readily be purchased on eBay to large-scale military anti-access/area-denial (A2/AD) capabilities.” So the real benefits here are: works in mountains, and future-proofs against better GPS jamming.
  - haroldp 11y ago
    Iran managed to "hack" GPS to steer a state of the art American drone to land safely at a location of their choice over four years ago. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93U.S._RQ-170_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93U.S._RQ-170_incid... I would say that GPS's vulnerability is a current problem rather than a future one.
peter303 11y ago
I've some of the self-driving systems are relying on remembered images of highways as much as lidar or radar. A memory of roads near your residence and workplace is useful.
cyanbane 11y ago
"which is aimed at reducing the 3000 casualties which in 2007 resulted from inexact air-drops in militarily sensitive environments such as Afghanistan." Is that saying 3000 casualties just in 2007? That number is a lot higher than I would have expected it to be. I didn't realize this was such a problem.
- timboslice 11y ago
  I believe that number includes casualties caused from retrieving the package, but it still seems high to me too
  - hammock 11y ago
    There were 7,700 people killed in the war in Afghanistan in 2007. Forty percent were due to inexact airdrops? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_in_the_war_in_Afghanistan_%282001%E2%80%93present%29#Civilian_and_overall_casualties_.282007.29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_in_the_war...
    - acveilleux 11y ago
      Casualty is a military word that includes the sick and the wounded. Doesn't mean they died.
- DanBC 11y ago
  Another part of the problem was using the same colour packaging for food-aid air drops and cluster munitions. About 10% of cluster bomblets don't explode. https://www.hrw.org/legacy/backgrounder/arms/cluster-bck1031.htm https://www.hrw.org/legacy/backgrounder/arms/cluster-bck1031... http://www.landmineclearance.org/page2.html http://www.landmineclearance.org/page2.html http://www.rawa.org/cluster2.htm http://www.rawa.org/cluster2.htm
  - fapjacks 11y ago
    Yeah, not only that, but they look like big soda cans. If there's one thing little kids have eyes for, there it is.
gefh 11y ago
Time to bring back camouflage cities[1] and ghost armies[2] then. [1] http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/100years/stories/camouflage.html http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/100years/stories/camouflage... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_Army https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_Army
- gefh 11y ago
  My bad; now I know what an air drop is, and it doesn't involve blowing anything up. Still, the above links are fascinating.
  - pavel_lishin 11y ago
    But Ghost, uh, Terrain can still make it possible to steal airdrop supplies by confusing the camera en route to its destination.
- berntb 11y ago
  A fascinating new meaning for "cargo cult"... :-)
nickpsecurity 11y ago
This might save lives in Modern Warfare's Drop Zone mode.

Reminds me of TERCOM's predecessor, DSMAC - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TERCOM#DSMAC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TERCOM#DSMAC

acveilleux 11y ago
Yeah, totally thinking of missile terminal guidance. I guess fear of jamming, capture, and the need to keep system costs low is why they're not going for a mapping radar approach instead as that would get them all-weather capabilities.
- vonmoltke 11y ago
  In addition, a passive system is useful for covert as well as overt drops. An active system isn't.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

daveguy 11y ago

From the article: "The current implementation of JPADS relies on GPS tracking to guide unmanned drops to the correct coordinates, but any deviation from the drop target, which can be caused by wind or other environment factors, can result in the necessity for troops to venture into frontline territory to retrieve the delivery." The image shows a parachute drop. I'm not sure how image recognition will help reduce the impact of wind or other environment factors. It seems like military GPS now in the sub-meter accuracy would be - by far - the best guidance system. Anyone have any insight as to how image recognition is better than GPS or even helps (although article implies replacement)?

callesgg 11y ago
It is harder to spoof image recognition guidance, but spoofing is not mentioned as an issue in the article.
- vanattab 11y ago
  Ah.. I think you might be onto something. An image recognition approach probably does mitigate gps spoofing and jamming attacks. And perhaps they are thinking about china's anti satellite missiles that they tested a few years back.
- JustSomeNobody 11y ago
  Is it really? The military has been using camo to spoof image recognition since forever. But I guess if this is for drops then camo wouldn't apply?
  - gherkin0 11y ago
    > Is it really? The military has been using camo to spoof image recognition since forever. I don't think so. Camouflage has been used to hide things in the terrain for a long time, but I don't think it's ever been used impersonate a different area's terrain (which I think you'd have to do to "spoof" in this context). Edit: Actually, now that I think about it, I might be wrong. Wartime blackouts could probably be thought of a kind of spoofing camouflage, especially if they put decoy lights in an area away from the city or left lights on in less-critical areas. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackout_%28wartime%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackout_%28wartime%29
    - JustSomeNobody 11y ago
      Was used in Area 51: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/05/110520-area-51-secret-hid-craft-base-declassified-a-12-plane/ http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/05/110520-area-... And while not images per se (though they did use blow up equipment), there's the Ghost Army: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_Army https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_Army Edit: To clarify, the Ghost Army used inflatables not to hide, but to mimick and deceive, but the concept is similar.

Evolved 11y ago

Better link that describes the other concerns about GPS that were brought up and describes in more detail how the system works: http://www.defenseone.com/technology/2016/01/army-testing-robo-parachutes-dont-need-gps/125151/ http://www.defenseone.com/technology/2016/01/army-testing-ro...

cfcef 11y ago
> The testing of a GPS-free version of JPADS is yet another example of efforts to develop alternatives to satellite guidance. “GPS is very expensive to launch and operate,” Defense Secretary Ash Carter said during an April 24 podcast from Silicon Valley, according to National Defense magazine. The global positioning system, he said, “makes us vulnerable to attacks, it is impossible to use in the valleys of Afghanistan or in a big city [where signals are blocked], or in places where the signal is poor.” “At DoD, we worry about enemies jamming GPS signals.” Army Maj. Christopher Brown, who helps run the service’s efforts in position, navigation and timing, or PNT, told C4ISR & Networks last year. “Threats to military GPS have evolved and improved at a rapid pace — from a proliferation of small-scale commercial jamming devices that can readily be purchased on eBay to large-scale military anti-access/area-denial (A2/AD) capabilities.” So the real benefits here are: works in mountains, and future-proofs against better GPS jamming.
- haroldp 11y ago
  Iran managed to "hack" GPS to steer a state of the art American drone to land safely at a location of their choice over four years ago. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93U.S._RQ-170_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93U.S._RQ-170_incid... I would say that GPS's vulnerability is a current problem rather than a future one.

peter303 11y ago

I've some of the self-driving systems are relying on remembered images of highways as much as lidar or radar. A memory of roads near your residence and workplace is useful.

cyanbane 11y ago

"which is aimed at reducing the 3000 casualties which in 2007 resulted from inexact air-drops in militarily sensitive environments such as Afghanistan." Is that saying 3000 casualties just in 2007? That number is a lot higher than I would have expected it to be. I didn't realize this was such a problem.

timboslice 11y ago
I believe that number includes casualties caused from retrieving the package, but it still seems high to me too
- hammock 11y ago
  There were 7,700 people killed in the war in Afghanistan in 2007. Forty percent were due to inexact airdrops? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_in_the_war_in_Afghanistan_%282001%E2%80%93present%29#Civilian_and_overall_casualties_.282007.29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_in_the_war...
  - acveilleux 11y ago
    Casualty is a military word that includes the sick and the wounded. Doesn't mean they died.
DanBC 11y ago
Another part of the problem was using the same colour packaging for food-aid air drops and cluster munitions. About 10% of cluster bomblets don't explode. https://www.hrw.org/legacy/backgrounder/arms/cluster-bck1031.htm https://www.hrw.org/legacy/backgrounder/arms/cluster-bck1031... http://www.landmineclearance.org/page2.html http://www.landmineclearance.org/page2.html http://www.rawa.org/cluster2.htm http://www.rawa.org/cluster2.htm
- fapjacks 11y ago
  Yeah, not only that, but they look like big soda cans. If there's one thing little kids have eyes for, there it is.

gefh 11y ago

Time to bring back camouflage cities[1] and ghost armies[2] then. [1] http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/100years/stories/camouflage.html http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/100years/stories/camouflage... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_Army https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_Army

gefh 11y ago
My bad; now I know what an air drop is, and it doesn't involve blowing anything up. Still, the above links are fascinating.
- pavel_lishin 11y ago
  But Ghost, uh, Terrain can still make it possible to steal airdrop supplies by confusing the camera en route to its destination.
berntb 11y ago
A fascinating new meaning for "cargo cult"... :-)

nickpsecurity 11y ago

This might save lives in Modern Warfare's Drop Zone mode.