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Okay, let me make this clear. Under absolutely no circumstances is it even remotely appropriate for a manager to flirt with any direct reports. It is always 10

by hluska 11y ago

Okay, let me make this clear. Under absolutely no circumstances is it even remotely appropriate for a manager to flirt with any direct reports. It is always 100% wrong and there is never any room for this type of bullshit.

tomp 11y ago
So what would you do if a manager and his/her report fall in love and get married? Fire the manager? If not, then it's hard to say "it is always 100% wrong".
- hluska 11y ago
  Decisions like that cannot happen in a vacuum so I would have to collect more information. For example, did the manager disclose the relationship to his/her direct manager before the wedding? If so, were there any controls put in place to make sure that the report was treated fairly? And then, what about the rest of the team? How do they feel about the relationship? Does it hurt their ability to do their jobs? Do they feel they are treated fairly? The way that you have worded that scenario makes me think that nobody in the organization knew about the relationship before the wedding. In that case, I would likely want to fire the manager, though I can see how that could open up a metric shit ton of litigation, so I may not get my wish. If I couldn't outright terminate the manager, at minimum, I would make sure that he/she was no longer his/her spouse's direct manager. That might mean a transfer to another department, or it might even mean a demotion. Perhaps most damaging, I would never particularly trust the manager or his/her judgment again. Continuing to supervise someone who you are in love with is just an incredible conflict of interest. Keeping it a secret and not giving me the chance to make sure that there are controls in place just makes it all the worse. Just a few notes to my answer: 1.) I am Canadian and Canadian courts have ruled that managers have an implied duty to make sure that the workplace is not poisoned by sexual harassment. Further, they have ruled that managers also have an implied duty to protect the company itself from any sort of harassment claim. 2.) I am a huge fan of written policy forbidding romantic relationships between a manager and his/her direct reports.
  - tomp 11y ago
    Hm... you wrote your whole post assuming that the manager did something wrong after initiating the relationship (e.g. didn't report the relationship, didn't make sure the team was OK with it, didn't take care of any potential conflicts of interest, ...). My point in mentioning marriage was just that clearly, the subordinate was OK with the whole relationship thing. So, after the fact, the flirting was clearly not wrong/immoral/inappropriate. So, assuming everything was done correctly ("by the book") after the relationship had begun, would you still consider flirting inappropriate in all circumstances? > 2.) I am a huge fan of written policy forbidding romantic relationships between a manager and his/her direct reports. In an ideal world, this would be awesome. In the real world, people fall in love unexpectedly (even if they don't want to). What do you want them to do in that case? Repress their feelings, hide and lie about their relationship, quit their jobs hoping that it was worth it? I firmly believe that reasonable, emotionally mature people are able to handle relationships (and breakups) in a normal, not psychopathic or disturbing way.

by hluska 11y ago

tomp 11y ago

So what would you do if a manager and his/her report fall in love and get married? Fire the manager? If not, then it's hard to say "it is always 100% wrong".

hluska 11y ago
Decisions like that cannot happen in a vacuum so I would have to collect more information. For example, did the manager disclose the relationship to his/her direct manager before the wedding? If so, were there any controls put in place to make sure that the report was treated fairly? And then, what about the rest of the team? How do they feel about the relationship? Does it hurt their ability to do their jobs? Do they feel they are treated fairly? The way that you have worded that scenario makes me think that nobody in the organization knew about the relationship before the wedding. In that case, I would likely want to fire the manager, though I can see how that could open up a metric shit ton of litigation, so I may not get my wish. If I couldn't outright terminate the manager, at minimum, I would make sure that he/she was no longer his/her spouse's direct manager. That might mean a transfer to another department, or it might even mean a demotion. Perhaps most damaging, I would never particularly trust the manager or his/her judgment again. Continuing to supervise someone who you are in love with is just an incredible conflict of interest. Keeping it a secret and not giving me the chance to make sure that there are controls in place just makes it all the worse. Just a few notes to my answer: 1.) I am Canadian and Canadian courts have ruled that managers have an implied duty to make sure that the workplace is not poisoned by sexual harassment. Further, they have ruled that managers also have an implied duty to protect the company itself from any sort of harassment claim. 2.) I am a huge fan of written policy forbidding romantic relationships between a manager and his/her direct reports.
- tomp 11y ago
  Hm... you wrote your whole post assuming that the manager did something wrong after initiating the relationship (e.g. didn't report the relationship, didn't make sure the team was OK with it, didn't take care of any potential conflicts of interest, ...). My point in mentioning marriage was just that clearly, the subordinate was OK with the whole relationship thing. So, after the fact, the flirting was clearly not wrong/immoral/inappropriate. So, assuming everything was done correctly ("by the book") after the relationship had begun, would you still consider flirting inappropriate in all circumstances? > 2.) I am a huge fan of written policy forbidding romantic relationships between a manager and his/her direct reports. In an ideal world, this would be awesome. In the real world, people fall in love unexpectedly (even if they don't want to). What do you want them to do in that case? Repress their feelings, hide and lie about their relationship, quit their jobs hoping that it was worth it? I firmly believe that reasonable, emotionally mature people are able to handle relationships (and breakups) in a normal, not psychopathic or disturbing way.