5 ms·

Come on, that is bullshit. Simply, don't go out of your way to be an asshole. Genuine compliments are fine. Leering is wrong. Sexually suggestive comments or wi

by hluska 11y ago

Come on, that is bullshit. Simply, don't go out of your way to be an asshole. Genuine compliments are fine. Leering is wrong. Sexually suggestive comments or winks in emails are wrong. Don't treat anyone as a lesser form of life. This is so fucking simple and it makes for a better work environment for all.

isnullorempty 11y ago
So what are you supposed to do if you are attracted to someone at work, never make a move? Women need to be more forgiving and take it as a compliment, unless someone continues after a clear rejection (which is the definition of harassment).
- pc86 11y ago
  You do not need a "clear rejection" to make something harassment. If I've never spoken to someone but I spend ten minutes a day staring at her chest, that's harassment. If I ask someone out, they say yes, and keep rescheduling 100 times, me continuing to ask them out and not take the (subtle, non-obvious) hint is still harassment.
  - isnullorempty 11y ago
    Looking at someone is harassment now? I must have harassed hundreds of women then, What about thinking about them?
    - pc86 11y ago
      If you are leering at someone day in and day out that is harassment. Is that really a difficult point to understand? I'm not talking about a glance because a woman is wearing a new shirt. That's not harassment, nobody ever said it was, and asserting otherwise is a straw man. But ogling the hot girl every day is.
      - isnullorempty 11y ago
        Only if it's someone you aren't interested in, if a hot guy you liked made eye contact a few times and smiled it would make your day. Am I right?
        pc86 11y ago
        Well I'm a married heterosexual man, so the universe of "hot guys I like" is pretty small. And I don't know why you insist on continuing to argue against points I'm not making. I'm saying continued unwanted advances = harassment, regardless of the existence or lack of "clear rejection." If you flirt with someone at work (what exactly are you being paid to do?) and they reciprocate, it's not unwanted. If you do it once and they don't reciprocate, and you stop, it's not continued.
        isnullorempty 11y ago
        So it's not the act that's harassment, it's the relative level of attractiveness of the person committing the act. Interesting.
        pc86 11y ago
        You are either being willfully ignorant or a troll (or both). Nowhere did I even intimate that attractiveness has anything to do with anything. > I'm saying continued unwanted advances = harassment
        isnullorempty 11y ago
        Reciprocation will be more likely if the person making the advance is more attractive relative to target of the advance. I'm sure there is a mathematical formula for this.
- hluska 11y ago
  First, I have been in work relationships and they aren't all they are cracked up to be. They make coworkers uncomfortable and create all sorts of weird situations that my little monkey brain can't process. Unless you are very very strict about boundaries (ie - from 8-5 we are at work, we only work, and outside of those hours we are only in a relationship and we don't talk about work), these relationships are a minefield. Seriously, if they go bad, they go very bad. If they work, they can be great. But please be careful! That aside, it depends on your relative levels and how closely you work together. 1. If you are a manager who is attracted to one of your reports, it is never acceptable to flirt. If you can't resist, quit your job first. 2. If you are attracted to your manager, be very very careful. He or she may worry that they have harassed you and that kind of worry makes any sort of positive resolution very difficult. There's a good chance that one of you will end up transferred to a totally unrelated team. If you like your job, it isn't worth taking this kind of a crapshoot. 3. If you are at the same level, ask yourself if you are mature enough to maintain a good working relationship if he or she rejects you. Then, take some time to think over the worst case scenarios. How will you react if you two date for a year, you are madly in love and he or she breaks up with you?? Will you let that boil over into your work world?? What if there is infidelity? What will you talk about outside of work?? If you only have work in common, tread lightly - one of you will move up or out. Then what?? What happens if he or she gets promoted? Will you feel jealous or proud?? Once you have thought carefully about those things, tell him or her how you feel (preferably outside of work hours) and ask him or her out. If the date goes well and you want to go on another date, tell your manager quickly. If the date goes horribly, be cool and don't let it change the working relationship. Also, for the love of whatever you consider holy. If all goes well, don't do any of that cute dating bullshit at work!! Don't hold hands. Don't call each other pet names. Don't get caught making out in the supply closet!!! :)
sheraz 11y ago
No it is not bullshit. This whole topic is filled with loaded words like "harassment" and "victim." Furthermore, workplace harassment laws are tipped in the females favor. If she even perceives something, then it happened. If you think that sending a wink to someone is treating them as a lower life form, then I don't think there is much I can say...
- hluska 11y ago
  You are wrong. Sexual harassment laws are somewhat tipped in the victim's favour, but only because law in general is tipped slightly in the victim's favour. This is not about laws favouring women, it is just about how the law works. Simply, the victim's feelings matter. There is a difference between a wink and a wink after something sexually suggestive. If you can't understand that difference then yeah, there's nothing else I can say.
  - sheraz 11y ago
    And there in lies the problem -- we are legislating about "feelings." We have delegated to the state what our personal responsibility should have been all along. "Hey, asshole -- keep it in your pants or I will tell the whole office that you went through an Asian-fetish. Now can we discuss this TPS report or not?" Secondly, a wink after something sexually suggestive is a little redundant, wouldn't you say?
    - hluska 11y ago
      You have stopped trying to be productive and are just being argumentative now. Your third and fourth paragraphs are in particularly poor taste. I don't understand what is so difficult here. Her manager harassed her and the fear and embarrassment that she felt were real. If the genders were reversed, the result would have been the same. That is because in a civilized society, if you act in a way that makes someone uncomfortable, there needs to be accountability.
      - sheraz 11y ago

by hluska 11y ago

isnullorempty 11y ago

So what are you supposed to do if you are attracted to someone at work, never make a move? Women need to be more forgiving and take it as a compliment, unless someone continues after a clear rejection (which is the definition of harassment).

pc86 11y ago
You do not need a "clear rejection" to make something harassment. If I've never spoken to someone but I spend ten minutes a day staring at her chest, that's harassment. If I ask someone out, they say yes, and keep rescheduling 100 times, me continuing to ask them out and not take the (subtle, non-obvious) hint is still harassment.
- isnullorempty 11y ago
  Looking at someone is harassment now? I must have harassed hundreds of women then, What about thinking about them?
  - pc86 11y ago
    If you are leering at someone day in and day out that is harassment. Is that really a difficult point to understand? I'm not talking about a glance because a woman is wearing a new shirt. That's not harassment, nobody ever said it was, and asserting otherwise is a straw man. But ogling the hot girl every day is.
    - isnullorempty 11y ago
      Only if it's someone you aren't interested in, if a hot guy you liked made eye contact a few times and smiled it would make your day. Am I right?
      - pc86 11y ago
        Well I'm a married heterosexual man, so the universe of "hot guys I like" is pretty small. And I don't know why you insist on continuing to argue against points I'm not making. I'm saying continued unwanted advances = harassment, regardless of the existence or lack of "clear rejection." If you flirt with someone at work (what exactly are you being paid to do?) and they reciprocate, it's not unwanted. If you do it once and they don't reciprocate, and you stop, it's not continued.
        isnullorempty 11y ago
        So it's not the act that's harassment, it's the relative level of attractiveness of the person committing the act. Interesting.
        pc86 11y ago
        You are either being willfully ignorant or a troll (or both). Nowhere did I even intimate that attractiveness has anything to do with anything. > I'm saying continued unwanted advances = harassment
        isnullorempty 11y ago
        Reciprocation will be more likely if the person making the advance is more attractive relative to target of the advance. I'm sure there is a mathematical formula for this.
hluska 11y ago
First, I have been in work relationships and they aren't all they are cracked up to be. They make coworkers uncomfortable and create all sorts of weird situations that my little monkey brain can't process. Unless you are very very strict about boundaries (ie - from 8-5 we are at work, we only work, and outside of those hours we are only in a relationship and we don't talk about work), these relationships are a minefield. Seriously, if they go bad, they go very bad. If they work, they can be great. But please be careful! That aside, it depends on your relative levels and how closely you work together. 1. If you are a manager who is attracted to one of your reports, it is never acceptable to flirt. If you can't resist, quit your job first. 2. If you are attracted to your manager, be very very careful. He or she may worry that they have harassed you and that kind of worry makes any sort of positive resolution very difficult. There's a good chance that one of you will end up transferred to a totally unrelated team. If you like your job, it isn't worth taking this kind of a crapshoot. 3. If you are at the same level, ask yourself if you are mature enough to maintain a good working relationship if he or she rejects you. Then, take some time to think over the worst case scenarios. How will you react if you two date for a year, you are madly in love and he or she breaks up with you?? Will you let that boil over into your work world?? What if there is infidelity? What will you talk about outside of work?? If you only have work in common, tread lightly - one of you will move up or out. Then what?? What happens if he or she gets promoted? Will you feel jealous or proud?? Once you have thought carefully about those things, tell him or her how you feel (preferably outside of work hours) and ask him or her out. If the date goes well and you want to go on another date, tell your manager quickly. If the date goes horribly, be cool and don't let it change the working relationship. Also, for the love of whatever you consider holy. If all goes well, don't do any of that cute dating bullshit at work!! Don't hold hands. Don't call each other pet names. Don't get caught making out in the supply closet!!! :)

sheraz 11y ago

No it is not bullshit. This whole topic is filled with loaded words like "harassment" and "victim." Furthermore, workplace harassment laws are tipped in the females favor. If she even perceives something, then it happened. If you think that sending a wink to someone is treating them as a lower life form, then I don't think there is much I can say...

hluska 11y ago
You are wrong. Sexual harassment laws are somewhat tipped in the victim's favour, but only because law in general is tipped slightly in the victim's favour. This is not about laws favouring women, it is just about how the law works. Simply, the victim's feelings matter. There is a difference between a wink and a wink after something sexually suggestive. If you can't understand that difference then yeah, there's nothing else I can say.
- sheraz 11y ago
  And there in lies the problem -- we are legislating about "feelings." We have delegated to the state what our personal responsibility should have been all along. "Hey, asshole -- keep it in your pants or I will tell the whole office that you went through an Asian-fetish. Now can we discuss this TPS report or not?" Secondly, a wink after something sexually suggestive is a little redundant, wouldn't you say?
  - hluska 11y ago
    You have stopped trying to be productive and are just being argumentative now. Your third and fourth paragraphs are in particularly poor taste. I don't understand what is so difficult here. Her manager harassed her and the fear and embarrassment that she felt were real. If the genders were reversed, the result would have been the same. That is because in a civilized society, if you act in a way that makes someone uncomfortable, there needs to be accountability.
    - sheraz 11y ago