4 ms·
I'm a hetrosexual male who's done everything from construction to coding. At every job I've had--workers, mainly guys, but so, so many women too, discuss their
by marincounty 11y ago
I'm a hetrosexual male who's done everything from construction to coding. At every job I've had--workers, mainly guys, but so, so many women too, discuss their sexual life. (In all honestly, women have told me too more personal things (sexual in nature) at work, over men. The big difference is these women had no power over my career.
And the difference is they weren't "hitting" on me. When I was a younger man--yes some where, but I handled the situation. (I guarantee now they are just yacking about sex, and their personal stuff.)The last thing I wanted to hear on a Monday was a story about Shirly's elder son walking in on her and her new boy friend "rattling the bed". I still can't get that image out of my head, and it's been 20 years.
Actually, I have found both sexes guilty of talking about their sex life at work. It could be intimate details of the date you had on Friday night, or how your mate isn't attentive to your needs any more. I've never liked hearing personal stuff about my coworkers. Of course, I never said anything, because it was innocent conversation at the time, but if I was an attractive female, or a young attractive male, I might have thought differently.
Maybe we shouldn't talk about this stuff at work. Personally, I just don't like hearing anything that personal
ever. That's what therapists get paid to suffer through?
I not conflating my experiences with her's; just stating we shouldn't talk about anything remotely sexual--hell--shut up about baby on the way. We see the cute baby bump, or suffer through how hard it was to fertilize the egg. (Guys like me look at it as a tragedy, not something great.) People talk way too much at work. In my experience, most are lonely and don't have close friends, and use workers as free friends, and free therapy. We don't want to hear it. The jokes are worn out. It's just done. Find friends outside of work to dazzle with your stories. I know finding friends is very hard. It's even harder, if all you have concentrated on is work since that first job out of college.
And yes, some are sexual predators. I've seen them in most work places. Ive seen gay managers give special jobs to their boy Friday. I've seen pretty girls promoted--just becase they are pretty. I used to see blatatent sexual harassment, but not in the last fifteen years, but it looks like it hasn't gone away, at least at Google.
- skj 11y agoNice typo about Shirley's elder son wanking in on her... I hope?
- marincounty 11y agoYea, typo.
- cmdkeen 11y agoAgain there's a specific issue about power imbalances. A colleague says some things you don't like it is quite easy to ask them to refrain. With a manager that may not be the case, especially if you're new to the world of work. Managing people is a responsibility and you can't act like people you have power over are just your colleagues. Perhaps in time if you build up a close working relationship with people you can be friends who do or say things that are more risky - because you've established boundaries. It's also worth saying that if a colleague is being inappropriate the first stop doesn't have to be HR, it can be a manager - they are there to ensure teams work well. A good manager should even pre-empt the complaint if they observe the inappropriate behaviour. That's what makes it so bad when the manager is the one at fault.
- marincounty 11y agoRead my paragraph one? "The big difference is these women had no power over my career."
- kelvin0 11y agoI think your comment is thoughtful and relates to your experience. Once again, I can't understand why it is downvoted... HN quirks, that's what I call it.
- Torgo 11y agoI didn't vote it up or down because it's an opinion, but I found the "I wish nobody talked about personal things at work" part to be outlandish to the extent that it made me wonder momentarily if it was a troll.
- ethbro 11y agoPersonally, I like hearing and sharing with my coworkers about our lives outside of work... to a point. If my partner on-site is having a hard time at home due to issue X, that directly impacts my interpersonal relationship with him/her: were they to blow up at me in a moment of tension, I'd be more comfortable giving them a pass knowing where it might be coming from. That said, I think it's the "to a point" that's the difficulty here. Because that point is a socially-negotiated line and may be different between different coworkers, in different work contexts or surroundings, or just on different days. And... pardon to say... but "we" (as computer science professionals) aren't renowned for our attention to social cues and ability to navigate and be informed by same. In short, I feel like sexual harassment training might better be spent training on soft skills / communicating and reading ones coworkers better. PS: This absolutely applies equally to both parties in the original blog post. With the additional responsibility that the manager, as an individual in a position of authority, has a higher standard to uphold than the employee. Either they misread or ignored signals that these topics made the employee in question uncomfortable, or such signals weren't clearly given. In either case, communication breakdown. PPS: Simultaneously, I know I produce my best work when I feel like my team (including management above me) knows and communicates with me as more than a cog -- and yes, sometimes this includes crass language / semi-appropriate jokes or stories. In a lot of ways, it's a verbal trust-fall exercise. If I'm uncomfortable with anything, I try to clearly communicate that back to whoever is sharing.