5 ms·

> In the span of a week, I went from feeling excited and motivated about my job to feeling lethargic, anxious, and unenthused. (...) I was kissed on the cheek,

by qb45 11y ago

> In the span of a week, I went from feeling excited and motivated about my job to feeling lethargic, anxious, and unenthused. (...) I was kissed on the cheek, asked to sit on my manager’s lap, told about my manager’s sex life and virility (...) There exists a breed of narcissists who are so incapable of tolerating rejection that they will consistently ignore every sign of it. In fact, the less you are satisfied with their actions, the more they will repeat them, desperately needing to see that your displeasure was just a temporary fluke and in the end they really are those cool dudes who are never wrong and everybody just admires them. As a man I've never been asked to sit on one's lap (knock on wood), but some did give me a fair amount of trouble. It doesn't help that their delusional serf-confidence can be confused with competence by some less experienced folks and get them promoted to management roles. In fact, I'd expect their density to increase as you go up the corporate food chain.

marincounty 11y ago
I'm a hetrosexual male who's done everything from construction to coding. At every job I've had--workers, mainly guys, but so, so many women too, discuss their sexual life. (In all honestly, women have told me too more personal things (sexual in nature) at work, over men. The big difference is these women had no power over my career. And the difference is they weren't "hitting" on me. When I was a younger man--yes some where, but I handled the situation. (I guarantee now they are just yacking about sex, and their personal stuff.)The last thing I wanted to hear on a Monday was a story about Shirly's elder son walking in on her and her new boy friend "rattling the bed". I still can't get that image out of my head, and it's been 20 years. Actually, I have found both sexes guilty of talking about their sex life at work. It could be intimate details of the date you had on Friday night, or how your mate isn't attentive to your needs any more. I've never liked hearing personal stuff about my coworkers. Of course, I never said anything, because it was innocent conversation at the time, but if I was an attractive female, or a young attractive male, I might have thought differently. Maybe we shouldn't talk about this stuff at work. Personally, I just don't like hearing anything that personal ever. That's what therapists get paid to suffer through? I not conflating my experiences with her's; just stating we shouldn't talk about anything remotely sexual--hell--shut up about baby on the way. We see the cute baby bump, or suffer through how hard it was to fertilize the egg. (Guys like me look at it as a tragedy, not something great.) People talk way too much at work. In my experience, most are lonely and don't have close friends, and use workers as free friends, and free therapy. We don't want to hear it. The jokes are worn out. It's just done. Find friends outside of work to dazzle with your stories. I know finding friends is very hard. It's even harder, if all you have concentrated on is work since that first job out of college. And yes, some are sexual predators. I've seen them in most work places. Ive seen gay managers give special jobs to their boy Friday. I've seen pretty girls promoted--just becase they are pretty. I used to see blatatent sexual harassment, but not in the last fifteen years, but it looks like it hasn't gone away, at least at Google.
- skj 11y ago
  Nice typo about Shirley's elder son wanking in on her... I hope?
  - marincounty 11y ago
    Yea, typo.
- cmdkeen 11y ago
  Again there's a specific issue about power imbalances. A colleague says some things you don't like it is quite easy to ask them to refrain. With a manager that may not be the case, especially if you're new to the world of work. Managing people is a responsibility and you can't act like people you have power over are just your colleagues. Perhaps in time if you build up a close working relationship with people you can be friends who do or say things that are more risky - because you've established boundaries. It's also worth saying that if a colleague is being inappropriate the first stop doesn't have to be HR, it can be a manager - they are there to ensure teams work well. A good manager should even pre-empt the complaint if they observe the inappropriate behaviour. That's what makes it so bad when the manager is the one at fault.
  - marincounty 11y ago
    Read my paragraph one? "The big difference is these women had no power over my career."
    - kelvin0 11y ago
      I think your comment is thoughtful and relates to your experience. Once again, I can't understand why it is downvoted... HN quirks, that's what I call it.
      - Torgo 11y ago
        I didn't vote it up or down because it's an opinion, but I found the "I wish nobody talked about personal things at work" part to be outlandish to the extent that it made me wonder momentarily if it was a troll.
4k 11y ago
I am member of a minority, and have had more than one chance to go to the HR to report "being racially abused" and present the narrative in such a way that anyone would be convinced it was horrible. Firstly, what happened to her is definitely misconduct, but not sexual harassment. I get the impression that the "victim" here is trying to take advantage of the situation. She never asks the inappropriate person to stop here, instead goes to HR. I mean just in plain words "Please don't, this is inappropriate." would stop most such behavior from happening again in huge majority of cases. > During the HR investigation that ensued, I remember being shamed by a female colleague who thought I was blowing the situation out of proportion. She thought I was being overly sensitive, and that it was wrong of me to report my manager. That hurt. I thought she would’ve naturally supported me. "Being shamed"? What if that female colleague honestly thought that she was blowing the situation out of proportion? A mere disagreement is shaming? Just because someone thinks they are 'sexually harassed' doesn't make them right automatically. I mean is there any scenario where someone claiming they are harassed could be on the wrong side of the things (or blowing things out of proportion)? It seems the SF/valley area atleast is too politically correct to even entertain the possibility that the female could possibly be wrong or making a mistake. Anyone that doesn't agree with a narrow notion of SJW equality is literally the devil. And this sort of trend has made 'being victim' a somewhat coveted status that can be used for gaining publicity/career advances.
- thedz 11y ago
  > Firstly, what happened to her is definitely misconduct, but not sexual harassment. I get the impression that the "victim" here is trying to take advantage of the situation. She never asks the inappropriate person to stop here, instead goes to HR. I mean just in plain words "Please don't, this is inappropriate." would stop most such behavior from happening again in huge majority of cases. 1. Your implicit dismissal of her as a victim by using quotes is, frankly, a pretty large part of the reason why women feel so frustrated in tech. Here you are, a third party to this situation, automatically assuming that she's somehow someone who is purposely trying to take advantage of a situation. 2. Why is it the woman's responsibility to tell her male manager that it's inappropriate to ask her to sit on his lap? I mean, c'mon. I'll ask a coworker to stop if he's playing his music too loudly, but this is hardly in the same league. Plus, he's in a position of power over her, as her manager. 3. This situation is _precisely_ why there's an HR department.

by qb45 11y ago

marincounty 11y ago

I'm a hetrosexual male who's done everything from construction to coding. At every job I've had--workers, mainly guys, but so, so many women too, discuss their sexual life. (In all honestly, women have told me too more personal things (sexual in nature) at work, over men. The big difference is these women had no power over my career. And the difference is they weren't "hitting" on me. When I was a younger man--yes some where, but I handled the situation. (I guarantee now they are just yacking about sex, and their personal stuff.)The last thing I wanted to hear on a Monday was a story about Shirly's elder son walking in on her and her new boy friend "rattling the bed". I still can't get that image out of my head, and it's been 20 years. Actually, I have found both sexes guilty of talking about their sex life at work. It could be intimate details of the date you had on Friday night, or how your mate isn't attentive to your needs any more. I've never liked hearing personal stuff about my coworkers. Of course, I never said anything, because it was innocent conversation at the time, but if I was an attractive female, or a young attractive male, I might have thought differently. Maybe we shouldn't talk about this stuff at work. Personally, I just don't like hearing anything that personal ever. That's what therapists get paid to suffer through? I not conflating my experiences with her's; just stating we shouldn't talk about anything remotely sexual--hell--shut up about baby on the way. We see the cute baby bump, or suffer through how hard it was to fertilize the egg. (Guys like me look at it as a tragedy, not something great.) People talk way too much at work. In my experience, most are lonely and don't have close friends, and use workers as free friends, and free therapy. We don't want to hear it. The jokes are worn out. It's just done. Find friends outside of work to dazzle with your stories. I know finding friends is very hard. It's even harder, if all you have concentrated on is work since that first job out of college. And yes, some are sexual predators. I've seen them in most work places. Ive seen gay managers give special jobs to their boy Friday. I've seen pretty girls promoted--just becase they are pretty. I used to see blatatent sexual harassment, but not in the last fifteen years, but it looks like it hasn't gone away, at least at Google.

skj 11y ago
Nice typo about Shirley's elder son wanking in on her... I hope?
- marincounty 11y ago
  Yea, typo.
cmdkeen 11y ago
Again there's a specific issue about power imbalances. A colleague says some things you don't like it is quite easy to ask them to refrain. With a manager that may not be the case, especially if you're new to the world of work. Managing people is a responsibility and you can't act like people you have power over are just your colleagues. Perhaps in time if you build up a close working relationship with people you can be friends who do or say things that are more risky - because you've established boundaries. It's also worth saying that if a colleague is being inappropriate the first stop doesn't have to be HR, it can be a manager - they are there to ensure teams work well. A good manager should even pre-empt the complaint if they observe the inappropriate behaviour. That's what makes it so bad when the manager is the one at fault.
- marincounty 11y ago
  Read my paragraph one? "The big difference is these women had no power over my career."
  - kelvin0 11y ago
    I think your comment is thoughtful and relates to your experience. Once again, I can't understand why it is downvoted... HN quirks, that's what I call it.
    - Torgo 11y ago
      I didn't vote it up or down because it's an opinion, but I found the "I wish nobody talked about personal things at work" part to be outlandish to the extent that it made me wonder momentarily if it was a troll.

4k 11y ago

I am member of a minority, and have had more than one chance to go to the HR to report "being racially abused" and present the narrative in such a way that anyone would be convinced it was horrible. Firstly, what happened to her is definitely misconduct, but not sexual harassment. I get the impression that the "victim" here is trying to take advantage of the situation. She never asks the inappropriate person to stop here, instead goes to HR. I mean just in plain words "Please don't, this is inappropriate." would stop most such behavior from happening again in huge majority of cases. > During the HR investigation that ensued, I remember being shamed by a female colleague who thought I was blowing the situation out of proportion. She thought I was being overly sensitive, and that it was wrong of me to report my manager. That hurt. I thought she would’ve naturally supported me. "Being shamed"? What if that female colleague honestly thought that she was blowing the situation out of proportion? A mere disagreement is shaming? Just because someone thinks they are 'sexually harassed' doesn't make them right automatically. I mean is there any scenario where someone claiming they are harassed could be on the wrong side of the things (or blowing things out of proportion)? It seems the SF/valley area atleast is too politically correct to even entertain the possibility that the female could possibly be wrong or making a mistake. Anyone that doesn't agree with a narrow notion of SJW equality is literally the devil. And this sort of trend has made 'being victim' a somewhat coveted status that can be used for gaining publicity/career advances.

thedz 11y ago
> Firstly, what happened to her is definitely misconduct, but not sexual harassment. I get the impression that the "victim" here is trying to take advantage of the situation. She never asks the inappropriate person to stop here, instead goes to HR. I mean just in plain words "Please don't, this is inappropriate." would stop most such behavior from happening again in huge majority of cases. 1. Your implicit dismissal of her as a victim by using quotes is, frankly, a pretty large part of the reason why women feel so frustrated in tech. Here you are, a third party to this situation, automatically assuming that she's somehow someone who is purposely trying to take advantage of a situation. 2. Why is it the woman's responsibility to tell her male manager that it's inappropriate to ask her to sit on his lap? I mean, c'mon. I'll ask a coworker to stop if he's playing his music too loudly, but this is hardly in the same league. Plus, he's in a position of power over her, as her manager. 3. This situation is _precisely_ why there's an HR department.