5 ms·

Ugh this type of commoditization of exploits is downright scary. Google needs to do something about the OEMs dragging their feet on updates and do it FAST. I ca

Ugh this type of commoditization of exploits is downright scary. Google needs to do something about the OEMs dragging their feet on updates and do it FAST. I can't see any other solution for people other than to move to Nexus or iOS phone.

sleepychu 11y ago
The problem is, when Google say add a new feature to android, they don't want OEMs to upgrade if the phone's hardware isn't up to the task. So you make a low-ish spec phone that can do everything this generation of the OS demands and then all of a sudden it's not good enough any more. Plus it's in the OEMs interest to make the upgrade path involve purchasing a new handset.
- TeMPOraL 11y ago
  > So you make a low-ish spec phone that can do everything this generation of the OS demands If only. Actual low-ish spec phones can barely even lift the OS! By "do everything the OS demands" OEMs generally mean "sort of do it by hanging up in the process and requiring battery-removal powercycling". Source: spent three years using such a phone.
  - Pxtl 11y ago
    I have a Moto G 2nd gen. Nice device - good screen, peppy processor, runs android 5. Only 1G of ram and 8G of storage, meaning only 3GB for apps, most of which are the stock Google ones, and 1G of ram means the thing crawls. Moto is still releasing these anemic specs on the 3rd gen Moto G, only their "moto G turbo" will have respectable specs, and that's only in like Mexico or something. And the company sells a phone lower than the G. And this is a company that used to be owned by Google, and was branded as being a great stock android company during that phase.
    - Rumudiez 11y ago
      I, too, like to live bohemian-ly. I have a 1st gen Moto G. Bought it Dec 2013 and don't even care about having anything faster/bigger. Indeed, the Moto E has been out for a little while and that phone is what I probably consider the bare minimum while still qualifying as a smart phone. I'm just happy to have had device support for all these years so that I can run Android 5 natively and efficiently.
      - Pxtl 11y ago
        How do you deal with the storage problem, though? I don't mind the missing features or the thick build, but the fact that I basically have about 600MB of free space to play in for apps is killing me. Google Photos has a pathetic churning cycle where it downloads photos from my online google account and then complains that it's out of space and needs to delete them... and then does it again, all without ever having been run.
        cozzyd 11y ago
        Pretty sure you can use a microsd card?
        Pxtl 11y ago
        Very little can be moved to it.
        TeMPOraL 11y ago
        Indeed. I have this problem with my S4 right now - I can't install anything anymore, because something (apparently the OS; INB4 yes, I've checked the obvious things like data caches) grew to take most of it, and I'm stuck at ~500MB free. Most apps can't even be moved to SD card, and those that can be only get moved partially.
        Pxtl 11y ago
        In general, it's insane that 16gb is not considered the bare minimum for Android today considering the terrible experience you get with 8.
    - jayd16 11y ago
      > 1G of ram means the thing crawls. I assume you mean switching apps? Android doesn't have any paging support so if the app is in the foreground its entirely in memory.
trav4225 11y ago
Yup. This is the "dirty little secret" of the Android ecosystem IMHO. Personally, I use Nexus devices... however, I still don't trust these devices enough for very sensitive stuff -- fixes for known escalation bugs can still take a while to get patched. :-/
dredwerker 11y ago
Yeah my Hisense smarttv is android 4.2 and it will never get upgraded. I am pi$$ed - mainly because it didnt occur to me, I had it in my head that I could upgrade it or their might be a community scene but not for something this obscure.
- ocdtrekkie 11y ago
  I generally discourage "smart TVs" for this reason. It's a lot cheaper to replace/upgrade a set top box than it is to replace/upgrade your whole TV.
  - Piskvorrr 11y ago
    RPi2 has a lot of promise in this regard, IMNSHO :)
kosma 11y ago
Commoditization of exploits is important. The crooks have had access to them for a long time now on the black market; it's time we, the ordinary folks, have it too, so that we can raise awareness and protect ourselves. There are dangerous BIOS and router rootkits available for people who know where to look - but the general public won't take it seriously until they're widely available, out in the wild and wreaking havoc. The sooner, the better.
xenadu02 11y ago
Google doesn't much power in the relationship. They have announced several efforts to make OEMs and carriers provide a better update experience. So far it hasn't helped. The OEM's customer is the carrier because the carrier determines whether or not the handset even appears for sale in the stores or on the website. For both the OEM and the carrier, updates are a pure cost center for which there is little-to-no benefit. Google can't roll out updates on its own because the OEMs customize for their CPU, platform, baseband, etc. Google doesn't have the drivers, licenses, testing capacity, or configuration details to deal with the various bits of hardware. Presumably Google could make regular updates a requirement for using Google services on Android. At that point we'd find out whether the tail wags the dog and I think Google might not like the answer; getting the data on Android users is quite valuable for building advertising profiles. I doubt a few Googlers desire to have timely updates would survive contact with the money-making ad side of the house but I could be wrong.
- ocdtrekkie 11y ago
  Google needs to actually develop Android as a platform where drivers and their software can be distributed separately. Like Windows. Even Windows Phone lets Microsoft push the OS directly (first tested in the Dev Preview feature) separate from the firmware updates from the carrier or OEM.
pjmlp 11y ago
> Nexus or iOS phone. Way too expensive in many countries, where pre-pay is the rule. No SD card nor replaceable batteries. Regarding Nexus, I wouldn't trust Google since it screw owners with TI chipsets.
- martiuk 11y ago
  > Regarding Nexus, I wouldn't trust Google since it screw owners with TI chipsets. That's not a very good reason to not buy a Nexus phone, since every Nexus phone since the Nexus 4 has used a Qualcomm Snapdragon.
  - pjmlp 11y ago
    So what? It doesn't mean that Qualcomm will stop producing Snapdragons. But it also doesn't mean that some other reason, where Google also won't uphold its responsibilities to its clients won't happen.

sleepychu 11y ago

The problem is, when Google say add a new feature to android, they don't want OEMs to upgrade if the phone's hardware isn't up to the task. So you make a low-ish spec phone that can do everything this generation of the OS demands and then all of a sudden it's not good enough any more. Plus it's in the OEMs interest to make the upgrade path involve purchasing a new handset.

TeMPOraL 11y ago
> So you make a low-ish spec phone that can do everything this generation of the OS demands If only. Actual low-ish spec phones can barely even lift the OS! By "do everything the OS demands" OEMs generally mean "sort of do it by hanging up in the process and requiring battery-removal powercycling". Source: spent three years using such a phone.
- Pxtl 11y ago
  I have a Moto G 2nd gen. Nice device - good screen, peppy processor, runs android 5. Only 1G of ram and 8G of storage, meaning only 3GB for apps, most of which are the stock Google ones, and 1G of ram means the thing crawls. Moto is still releasing these anemic specs on the 3rd gen Moto G, only their "moto G turbo" will have respectable specs, and that's only in like Mexico or something. And the company sells a phone lower than the G. And this is a company that used to be owned by Google, and was branded as being a great stock android company during that phase.
  - Rumudiez 11y ago
    I, too, like to live bohemian-ly. I have a 1st gen Moto G. Bought it Dec 2013 and don't even care about having anything faster/bigger. Indeed, the Moto E has been out for a little while and that phone is what I probably consider the bare minimum while still qualifying as a smart phone. I'm just happy to have had device support for all these years so that I can run Android 5 natively and efficiently.
    - Pxtl 11y ago
      How do you deal with the storage problem, though? I don't mind the missing features or the thick build, but the fact that I basically have about 600MB of free space to play in for apps is killing me. Google Photos has a pathetic churning cycle where it downloads photos from my online google account and then complains that it's out of space and needs to delete them... and then does it again, all without ever having been run.
      - cozzyd 11y ago
        Pretty sure you can use a microsd card?
        Pxtl 11y ago
        Very little can be moved to it.
        TeMPOraL 11y ago
        Indeed. I have this problem with my S4 right now - I can't install anything anymore, because something (apparently the OS; INB4 yes, I've checked the obvious things like data caches) grew to take most of it, and I'm stuck at ~500MB free. Most apps can't even be moved to SD card, and those that can be only get moved partially.
        Pxtl 11y ago
        In general, it's insane that 16gb is not considered the bare minimum for Android today considering the terrible experience you get with 8.
  - jayd16 11y ago
    > 1G of ram means the thing crawls. I assume you mean switching apps? Android doesn't have any paging support so if the app is in the foreground its entirely in memory.

trav4225 11y ago

Yup. This is the "dirty little secret" of the Android ecosystem IMHO. Personally, I use Nexus devices... however, I still don't trust these devices enough for very sensitive stuff -- fixes for known escalation bugs can still take a while to get patched. :-/

dredwerker 11y ago

Yeah my Hisense smarttv is android 4.2 and it will never get upgraded. I am pi$$ed - mainly because it didnt occur to me, I had it in my head that I could upgrade it or their might be a community scene but not for something this obscure.

ocdtrekkie 11y ago
I generally discourage "smart TVs" for this reason. It's a lot cheaper to replace/upgrade a set top box than it is to replace/upgrade your whole TV.
- Piskvorrr 11y ago
  RPi2 has a lot of promise in this regard, IMNSHO :)

kosma 11y ago

Commoditization of exploits is important. The crooks have had access to them for a long time now on the black market; it's time we, the ordinary folks, have it too, so that we can raise awareness and protect ourselves. There are dangerous BIOS and router rootkits available for people who know where to look - but the general public won't take it seriously until they're widely available, out in the wild and wreaking havoc. The sooner, the better.

xenadu02 11y ago

Google doesn't much power in the relationship. They have announced several efforts to make OEMs and carriers provide a better update experience. So far it hasn't helped. The OEM's customer is the carrier because the carrier determines whether or not the handset even appears for sale in the stores or on the website. For both the OEM and the carrier, updates are a pure cost center for which there is little-to-no benefit. Google can't roll out updates on its own because the OEMs customize for their CPU, platform, baseband, etc. Google doesn't have the drivers, licenses, testing capacity, or configuration details to deal with the various bits of hardware. Presumably Google could make regular updates a requirement for using Google services on Android. At that point we'd find out whether the tail wags the dog and I think Google might not like the answer; getting the data on Android users is quite valuable for building advertising profiles. I doubt a few Googlers desire to have timely updates would survive contact with the money-making ad side of the house but I could be wrong.

ocdtrekkie 11y ago
Google needs to actually develop Android as a platform where drivers and their software can be distributed separately. Like Windows. Even Windows Phone lets Microsoft push the OS directly (first tested in the Dev Preview feature) separate from the firmware updates from the carrier or OEM.

pjmlp 11y ago

> Nexus or iOS phone. Way too expensive in many countries, where pre-pay is the rule. No SD card nor replaceable batteries. Regarding Nexus, I wouldn't trust Google since it screw owners with TI chipsets.

martiuk 11y ago
> Regarding Nexus, I wouldn't trust Google since it screw owners with TI chipsets. That's not a very good reason to not buy a Nexus phone, since every Nexus phone since the Nexus 4 has used a Qualcomm Snapdragon.
- pjmlp 11y ago
  So what? It doesn't mean that Qualcomm will stop producing Snapdragons. But it also doesn't mean that some other reason, where Google also won't uphold its responsibilities to its clients won't happen.