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There's no such thing as a "Python job." Anyone who can't pick up Python in a week isn't worth hiring, and conversely, being productive in Python isn't proof o

by dkarl 17y ago

There's no such thing as a "Python job." Anyone who can't pick up Python in a week isn't worth hiring, and conversely, being productive in Python isn't proof of technical ability. Unlike with C++, Lisp, or even Java, if I was hiring for a Python shop, I wouldn't stress Python as an important qualification for the position.

falsestprophet 17y ago
That is silly. Of course hacking in any language is possible after one week of experience. But, someone who has many years of experience with any set of tools will likely have a serious productivity advantage over someone with no experience.
hockeybias 17y ago
I too think your statement is silly.
jacobolus 17y ago
Some programmers prefer writing code in Python, because they find it more enjoyable than, e.g., Java or C++. These programmers look around for jobs mentioning Python, for obvious reasons. Python is straightforward and intuitive, but I don’t think anyone can master it in a week. For example, programmers used to writing Java code tend to write long, unnecessarily over-structured, un-idiomatic Python code. This is not because they’re bad programmers, but because they aren’t used to writing Python, and haven’t read lots of good Python code.
ighost 17y ago
I guess by pick up Python you mean learn enough Python to translate translate a Java program to Python? If you can write idiomatic code in a dynamic language a week after switching from C++ or Java, teach me your skills.
dkarl 17y ago
[Replying to myself since there are so many people who think this is silly.] There are many, many people who could be good Python programmers within a week. Obviously a programmer with only C++ or Java experience could not; I only mentioned those languages for contrast, because you wouldn't hire someone to write C++ unless they were already a good C++ programmer. The differences in style between Python and Ruby or Python and Perl, modulo the differences related to the available language features (which enforce themselves, and which account for most of the difference), are on the same scale as style differences between different C++ shops. You expect a good C++ programmer to adapt to the local dialect (assuming he has the technical chops to do so), so why wouldn't you expect a Perl programmer to adapt to Python? There's no way you would pass up a smart Perl or Ruby programmer for a Python job. (Vice-versa is another matter.) As for experience with other tools, looking at Python in that context actually strengthens my point. When you interview a developer, you don't bother asking about build tools, IDEs, SCMs, or testing frameworks unless they're applying to be the local guru. I've never asked a candidate if he knew how to build a .deb package. I've never worried about how much a candidate knows about Eclipse. (Or Jira, or gdb, or cvs.) The cumulative amount of tool-specific knowledge required to do my job dwarfs the complexity of Python, but I really don't bother with that stuff when I'm interviewing somebody for my group. A big technology like Django might be a different question. Django (as much as I've seen of it) seems to be considerably more complicated than Python. I could see wanting to hire a Django developer. But then it's a Django job and not a Python job, except by implication.
unbracketed 17y ago
"Tell me about your Python experience" "Well I started learning it about a week ago - I think I've pretty well mastered it." "Thanks, we'll get back to you."

by dkarl 17y ago

falsestprophet 17y ago

That is silly. Of course hacking in any language is possible after one week of experience. But, someone who has many years of experience with any set of tools will likely have a serious productivity advantage over someone with no experience.

hockeybias 17y ago

I too think your statement is silly.

jacobolus 17y ago

Some programmers prefer writing code in Python, because they find it more enjoyable than, e.g., Java or C++. These programmers look around for jobs mentioning Python, for obvious reasons. Python is straightforward and intuitive, but I don’t think anyone can master it in a week. For example, programmers used to writing Java code tend to write long, unnecessarily over-structured, un-idiomatic Python code. This is not because they’re bad programmers, but because they aren’t used to writing Python, and haven’t read lots of good Python code.

ighost 17y ago

I guess by pick up Python you mean learn enough Python to translate translate a Java program to Python? If you can write idiomatic code in a dynamic language a week after switching from C++ or Java, teach me your skills.

dkarl 17y ago

[Replying to myself since there are so many people who think this is silly.] There are many, many people who could be good Python programmers within a week. Obviously a programmer with only C++ or Java experience could not; I only mentioned those languages for contrast, because you wouldn't hire someone to write C++ unless they were already a good C++ programmer. The differences in style between Python and Ruby or Python and Perl, modulo the differences related to the available language features (which enforce themselves, and which account for most of the difference), are on the same scale as style differences between different C++ shops. You expect a good C++ programmer to adapt to the local dialect (assuming he has the technical chops to do so), so why wouldn't you expect a Perl programmer to adapt to Python? There's no way you would pass up a smart Perl or Ruby programmer for a Python job. (Vice-versa is another matter.) As for experience with other tools, looking at Python in that context actually strengthens my point. When you interview a developer, you don't bother asking about build tools, IDEs, SCMs, or testing frameworks unless they're applying to be the local guru. I've never asked a candidate if he knew how to build a .deb package. I've never worried about how much a candidate knows about Eclipse. (Or Jira, or gdb, or cvs.) The cumulative amount of tool-specific knowledge required to do my job dwarfs the complexity of Python, but I really don't bother with that stuff when I'm interviewing somebody for my group. A big technology like Django might be a different question. Django (as much as I've seen of it) seems to be considerably more complicated than Python. I could see wanting to hire a Django developer. But then it's a Django job and not a Python job, except by implication.

unbracketed 17y ago

"Tell me about your Python experience" "Well I started learning it about a week ago - I think I've pretty well mastered it." "Thanks, we'll get back to you."