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I live in a climate where you can potentially get stuck in the snow for few hours when going between cities (that happens maybe once per year, but today is exac

by kozak 11y ago

I live in a climate where you can potentially get stuck in the snow for few hours when going between cities (that happens maybe once per year, but today is exactly such a day, for example). In a gasoline car you would at least stay warm while waiting for the road to be unblocked. With an electric car, this might easily turn into a survival situation.

gfodor 11y ago
Being stuck in traffic barely drains the battery. It's range anxiety, not time anxiety.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- beambot 11y ago
  What about running the heater to stay alive and defrosted?
  - recursive 11y ago
    10 horsepower is more than 7 kilowatts of output. I think a typical car heater uses much less than this. Perhaps someone knows more precise figures.
    - vonmoltke 11y ago
      A typical car heater is "free" in the sense that the heat is generated using the engine coolant. An ICE-powered car as a small heat exchanger called the heater box in the passenger cabin. When the heater is on, a door opens and directs air through the heater box before being blown back into the cabin. As long as the car is running and the engine is hot, you get heat.
    - dangrossman 11y ago
      An EV essentially runs electric space heaters, since there's no engine block to steal waste heat from. It doesn't take a lot to heat a small enclosed space like a car interior. My Leaf uses anywhere from 1000 to 3000 watts to run heat, mostly towards the low end after it's warmed up. http://imgur.com/smzvL8C http://imgur.com/smzvL8C For reference, the battery pack is 24kWh, so it could theoretically run the heater while stuck on a road for 24 hours straight. A Model S with a 85kWh battery pack could keep the heat on for over 3 days.
      - falcolas 11y ago
        A fully charged Model S, operating at peak capacity. When it has to heat the battery pack, the interior, and has already been driven for upwards of 100 miles (plus heating), those numbers will significantly smaller. Worse would be the anxiety of retaining enough charge to get the car the remaining miles to your destination once un-stuck.
        dangrossman 11y ago
        After 100 miles plus heating, it's got 50 kWh left in the battery. That'll get you another 147 miles driving with the heat on. Sitting in traffic, for hours upon hours, is really not a problem for an EV. The interior and battery pack heaters only use 1.5 kilowatts per hour or so. If you drive 100 miles with the heat on, get stuck in the snow for an epic rescue time of 8 hours, your range is only decreased by 35 miles to 112. Having 112 miles left in your tank is not an anxiety-inducing situation.
        falcolas 11y ago
        It is, if you still have 80 miles to go in weather which got you stuck in the first place. I live in Montana, so such trips are common, not exceptional. Having a pass close in front of you (or while you're on it) is not terribly exceptional either.
        dangrossman 11y ago
- dangrossman 11y ago
  I don't know why this keeps getting downvoted. It's absolutely true. An EV uses 20+ kilowatts to move at highway speeds. It uses 1 kilowatt to run climate control. Sitting in traffic for an hour is equivalent to driving for 3 minutes, in terms of how much battery you use.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
jobu 11y ago
Not only that, but most lithium ion batteries don't function very well below freezing: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_at_high_and_low_temperatures http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_at_high_... This past weekend the high temperatures in large parts of the midwest were below the cutoff point.
- dangrossman 11y ago
  EV battery packs have heaters to keep the batteries from getting too cold. The Model S is the best-selling car in snowy Norway. I'm in Pennsylvania, it's below freezing every night in the winter (and often all day), and my Nissan Leaf doesn't mind at all.
dangrossman 11y ago
> In a gasoline car you would at least stay warm while waiting for the road to be unblocked. With an electric car, this might easily turn into a survival situation. Actually, a Tesla would keep you warm while waiting for longer than your gasoline car. A 2 liter engine, idling at 700 rpm, will consume about .32 gallons per hour. A 15 gallon tank then gives you 46 hours of heat. A 85 kilowatt hour battery pack can run a 1000 watt cabin heater for 85 hours. That's almost twice as long. If you travelled 50 miles from home before getting stuck, the gasoline car will have 40 hours of heating time left, and the EV will have 68 hours of heating time left.
NDizzle 11y ago
Yeah, it's going to be some time until I'm comfortable with batteries-only in cold weather. See here: http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2013/02/winter-chills-limit-range-of-the-tesla-model-s-electric-car/index.htm http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2013/02/winter-chill...

by kozak 11y ago

gfodor 11y ago

Being stuck in traffic barely drains the battery. It's range anxiety, not time anxiety.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
beambot 11y ago
What about running the heater to stay alive and defrosted?
- recursive 11y ago
  10 horsepower is more than 7 kilowatts of output. I think a typical car heater uses much less than this. Perhaps someone knows more precise figures.
  - vonmoltke 11y ago
    A typical car heater is "free" in the sense that the heat is generated using the engine coolant. An ICE-powered car as a small heat exchanger called the heater box in the passenger cabin. When the heater is on, a door opens and directs air through the heater box before being blown back into the cabin. As long as the car is running and the engine is hot, you get heat.
  - dangrossman 11y ago
    An EV essentially runs electric space heaters, since there's no engine block to steal waste heat from. It doesn't take a lot to heat a small enclosed space like a car interior. My Leaf uses anywhere from 1000 to 3000 watts to run heat, mostly towards the low end after it's warmed up. http://imgur.com/smzvL8C http://imgur.com/smzvL8C For reference, the battery pack is 24kWh, so it could theoretically run the heater while stuck on a road for 24 hours straight. A Model S with a 85kWh battery pack could keep the heat on for over 3 days.
    - falcolas 11y ago
      A fully charged Model S, operating at peak capacity. When it has to heat the battery pack, the interior, and has already been driven for upwards of 100 miles (plus heating), those numbers will significantly smaller. Worse would be the anxiety of retaining enough charge to get the car the remaining miles to your destination once un-stuck.
      - dangrossman 11y ago
        After 100 miles plus heating, it's got 50 kWh left in the battery. That'll get you another 147 miles driving with the heat on. Sitting in traffic, for hours upon hours, is really not a problem for an EV. The interior and battery pack heaters only use 1.5 kilowatts per hour or so. If you drive 100 miles with the heat on, get stuck in the snow for an epic rescue time of 8 hours, your range is only decreased by 35 miles to 112. Having 112 miles left in your tank is not an anxiety-inducing situation.
        falcolas 11y ago
        It is, if you still have 80 miles to go in weather which got you stuck in the first place. I live in Montana, so such trips are common, not exceptional. Having a pass close in front of you (or while you're on it) is not terribly exceptional either.
        dangrossman 11y ago
dangrossman 11y ago
I don't know why this keeps getting downvoted. It's absolutely true. An EV uses 20+ kilowatts to move at highway speeds. It uses 1 kilowatt to run climate control. Sitting in traffic for an hour is equivalent to driving for 3 minutes, in terms of how much battery you use.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

jobu 11y ago

Not only that, but most lithium ion batteries don't function very well below freezing: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_at_high_and_low_temperatures http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_at_high_... This past weekend the high temperatures in large parts of the midwest were below the cutoff point.

dangrossman 11y ago
EV battery packs have heaters to keep the batteries from getting too cold. The Model S is the best-selling car in snowy Norway. I'm in Pennsylvania, it's below freezing every night in the winter (and often all day), and my Nissan Leaf doesn't mind at all.

dangrossman 11y ago

> In a gasoline car you would at least stay warm while waiting for the road to be unblocked. With an electric car, this might easily turn into a survival situation. Actually, a Tesla would keep you warm while waiting for longer than your gasoline car. A 2 liter engine, idling at 700 rpm, will consume about .32 gallons per hour. A 15 gallon tank then gives you 46 hours of heat. A 85 kilowatt hour battery pack can run a 1000 watt cabin heater for 85 hours. That's almost twice as long. If you travelled 50 miles from home before getting stuck, the gasoline car will have 40 hours of heating time left, and the EV will have 68 hours of heating time left.

NDizzle 11y ago

Yeah, it's going to be some time until I'm comfortable with batteries-only in cold weather. See here: http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2013/02/winter-chills-limit-range-of-the-tesla-model-s-electric-car/index.htm http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2013/02/winter-chill...