4 ms·

The companies that don't make it: CEO's fly away on golden parachutes sewn with the money they didn't earn, middle management goes on to other companies with an

The companies that don't make it: CEO's fly away on golden parachutes sewn with the money they didn't earn, middle management goes on to other companies with an Impressive Name on Resume (+2 to hire-ability skill) added, and the engineers lose it all on the company stock they were promised could only go up and have to find a new source of income for the multi-thousand a month studio apartment they rented to get out there. (Yes I realize this is overly simplified and bleak, that's the point.)

cballard 11y ago
I've been wondering - in many startup companies, the engineers own all of the knowledge to run the company (documentation practices are discouraged by management because that's not "shipping"). Why don't we see more collective action? If the entire engineering staff walked, the company would be fucked, which gives them quite a bit of leverage. Meanwhile, the engineers can easily find other jobs since they're relatively in demand.
- scarmig 11y ago
  If only there were some kind of organization of workers that could organize collective actions. Like, walking out and withholding your labor... Maybe we could call it a workers unified organization? A unity?
  - Apocryphon 11y ago
    A guild.
    - walshemj 11y ago
      Which has some unfortunate conations in American industrial history.
      - Apocryphon 11y ago
        I was thinking of it in terms of online gaming.
        walshemj 11y ago
        Don't take this the wrong way if your thinking about organising IT workers in some way you do need to understand American Industrial history at least in outline.
        deleted 11y ago
        [deleted]
- FussyZeus 11y ago
  I would simplify that and just not work at a place that was only making money off of investors and fundraising. If my boss doesn't have a product to show me and a business plan to sell it, I'm out of there.
hibikir 11y ago
Actually, middle management are the ones that tend to be in trouble: Few companies hire middle managers, as they prefer to promote vs hire. This is one of the reasons you see so much company loyalty in middle management: More ICs than managers are laid off, but finding a new job as a manager is far more difficult. Yes, the engineers shouldn't work hoping on an IPO ever happening, and focus on the cash component. To be fair, middle management is in the same boat though. Still, programmers have far better chances of finding another job quickly. Their skills are incredibly portable and easy to demonstrate. Now, if you want less risk as an engineer, consider a smaller market: The real problem in SF is the exposure to a crazy real estate market, and it's easy to work in a place without those risks. In St Louis, for instance, a generic, unremarkable senior dev makes 110-150K. It's a lot less than the bay, but a good house in a good school district can be bought outright for 200K! You can find similar low risk environments all over the midwest, with opportunities in both big companies and small startup incubators. You won't find AirBnBs, Ubers and Stripes in there, but if you are really afraid of a downturn, it's a decent possibility.

cballard 11y ago

I've been wondering - in many startup companies, the engineers own all of the knowledge to run the company (documentation practices are discouraged by management because that's not "shipping"). Why don't we see more collective action? If the entire engineering staff walked, the company would be fucked, which gives them quite a bit of leverage. Meanwhile, the engineers can easily find other jobs since they're relatively in demand.

scarmig 11y ago
If only there were some kind of organization of workers that could organize collective actions. Like, walking out and withholding your labor... Maybe we could call it a workers unified organization? A unity?
- Apocryphon 11y ago
  A guild.
  - walshemj 11y ago
    Which has some unfortunate conations in American industrial history.
    - Apocryphon 11y ago
      I was thinking of it in terms of online gaming.
      - walshemj 11y ago
        Don't take this the wrong way if your thinking about organising IT workers in some way you do need to understand American Industrial history at least in outline.
        deleted 11y ago
        [deleted]
FussyZeus 11y ago
I would simplify that and just not work at a place that was only making money off of investors and fundraising. If my boss doesn't have a product to show me and a business plan to sell it, I'm out of there.

hibikir 11y ago

Actually, middle management are the ones that tend to be in trouble: Few companies hire middle managers, as they prefer to promote vs hire. This is one of the reasons you see so much company loyalty in middle management: More ICs than managers are laid off, but finding a new job as a manager is far more difficult. Yes, the engineers shouldn't work hoping on an IPO ever happening, and focus on the cash component. To be fair, middle management is in the same boat though. Still, programmers have far better chances of finding another job quickly. Their skills are incredibly portable and easy to demonstrate. Now, if you want less risk as an engineer, consider a smaller market: The real problem in SF is the exposure to a crazy real estate market, and it's easy to work in a place without those risks. In St Louis, for instance, a generic, unremarkable senior dev makes 110-150K. It's a lot less than the bay, but a good house in a good school district can be bought outright for 200K! You can find similar low risk environments all over the midwest, with opportunities in both big companies and small startup incubators. You won't find AirBnBs, Ubers and Stripes in there, but if you are really afraid of a downturn, it's a decent possibility.