9 ms·

I want privacy because (1) I break laws I don't know about (2) I do things which might be misinterpreted as breaking the law or as being immoral (3) I do thing

I want privacy because (1) I break laws I don't know about (2) I do things which might be misinterpreted as breaking the law or as being immoral (3) I do things which are considered immoral by most people, but which are not illegal. For these reasons, I cannot act autonomously or creatively without privacy.

eru 17y ago
You can make your statement stronger by weakening the conditions: "(3) I do things which are considered immoral by _some_ people, but which are not illegal."
jacquesm 17y ago
The biggest reason why privacy matters is because there are always going to be crimes committed so there will always be people that have nothing to do with the crime caught in the dragnet around the crime scene. Coincidences do happen and if you happen to be around the area of two murders you'll have a very hard time to explain that away, whereas in a society with good privacy you would never even appear on the radar. So even if you haven't broken the law or done something that could be misconstrued as such you are still at risk. All this lack of privacy does is increase the size of the haystack while keeping the number of needles constant. But hay looks a lot like needles and plenty of 'hay' will end up being prosecuted for stuff the needles get away with. Less privacy means more solved crimes, but it also means many more false positives. The 'if you've got nothing to hide why do you want privacy' crowd seems to be completely oblivious to this, until they end up being hauled in to the station for something they had nothing to do with themselves. That's when reality kicks in and suddenly they switch sides (but by then it's obviously too late). We live in a society that is predicated on fear, fear of crime, of terror and so on. And most of us are willing to trade their freedom for security all too easily. If you want absolute security, you should realize that that is only possible in a society that has more in common with a prison than with a park. Robert Heinlein wrote a whole bunch of books around this theme, if you like SF and you haven't read those book yet I suggest you do so, there is some really good stuff in there.
- s_tec 17y ago
  I like Robert Heinlein, but I don't recall any of his books touching these topics. Can you give some specific recommendations for my reading list?
  - jacquesm 17y ago
    Farnhams Freehold, Friday and a bunch of others that I can't quite catch the title of right now (my books are in storage in a warehouse nearby, I'll have a look when I get there again). The one I'm thinking of (but not sure what the title is) features a park that is a reclaimed stretch of highway where people are free to do as they please in a society teeming with surveilance. The park is supervised by cops eyes, floating cameras that double as little weapons platforms. A tinkerer brings them down and chaos ensues. Nice insight in the human mind in there, and how thin the veneer of civilization is.
    - prodigal_erik 17y ago
      That last one is Niven's "Cloak of Anarchy", and he has it online at http://www.larryniven.org/stories/cloak_of_anarchy.shtml http://www.larryniven.org/stories/cloak_of_anarchy.shtml.
      - jacquesm 17y ago
        Ah, yes, you're absolutely right. That's why I couldn't find the title :) thanks! It must be 15 years since I last read those and it was in pretty quick succession while quite ill.
    - bjelkeman-again 17y ago
      You need a database of your books. :)
      - jacquesm 17y ago
        I have most of it in my head but that needs periodic refresh :)

eru 17y ago

You can make your statement stronger by weakening the conditions: "(3) I do things which are considered immoral by _some_ people, but which are not illegal."

jacquesm 17y ago

The biggest reason why privacy matters is because there are always going to be crimes committed so there will always be people that have nothing to do with the crime caught in the dragnet around the crime scene. Coincidences do happen and if you happen to be around the area of two murders you'll have a very hard time to explain that away, whereas in a society with good privacy you would never even appear on the radar. So even if you haven't broken the law or done something that could be misconstrued as such you are still at risk. All this lack of privacy does is increase the size of the haystack while keeping the number of needles constant. But hay looks a lot like needles and plenty of 'hay' will end up being prosecuted for stuff the needles get away with. Less privacy means more solved crimes, but it also means many more false positives. The 'if you've got nothing to hide why do you want privacy' crowd seems to be completely oblivious to this, until they end up being hauled in to the station for something they had nothing to do with themselves. That's when reality kicks in and suddenly they switch sides (but by then it's obviously too late). We live in a society that is predicated on fear, fear of crime, of terror and so on. And most of us are willing to trade their freedom for security all too easily. If you want absolute security, you should realize that that is only possible in a society that has more in common with a prison than with a park. Robert Heinlein wrote a whole bunch of books around this theme, if you like SF and you haven't read those book yet I suggest you do so, there is some really good stuff in there.

s_tec 17y ago
I like Robert Heinlein, but I don't recall any of his books touching these topics. Can you give some specific recommendations for my reading list?
- jacquesm 17y ago
  Farnhams Freehold, Friday and a bunch of others that I can't quite catch the title of right now (my books are in storage in a warehouse nearby, I'll have a look when I get there again). The one I'm thinking of (but not sure what the title is) features a park that is a reclaimed stretch of highway where people are free to do as they please in a society teeming with surveilance. The park is supervised by cops eyes, floating cameras that double as little weapons platforms. A tinkerer brings them down and chaos ensues. Nice insight in the human mind in there, and how thin the veneer of civilization is.
  - prodigal_erik 17y ago
    That last one is Niven's "Cloak of Anarchy", and he has it online at http://www.larryniven.org/stories/cloak_of_anarchy.shtml http://www.larryniven.org/stories/cloak_of_anarchy.shtml.
    - jacquesm 17y ago
      Ah, yes, you're absolutely right. That's why I couldn't find the title :) thanks! It must be 15 years since I last read those and it was in pretty quick succession while quite ill.
  - bjelkeman-again 17y ago
    You need a database of your books. :)
    - jacquesm 17y ago
      I have most of it in my head but that needs periodic refresh :)