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I would not call this "strong arming" just a sales consultant trained to try and keep a customer from leaving. This not something unique to Adobe, it happens wh

I would not call this "strong arming" just a sales consultant trained to try and keep a customer from leaving. This not something unique to Adobe, it happens when you try cancelling a phone plan, when you try switching utility providers and plenty of other things. The fact the customer was available to resolve the situation without subsequent follow-ups to me indicates that Adobe did nothing out of the ordinary here. And with all due respect, the customer decided to end their plan on the same day the billing period renews which clearly confused the sales consultant and made it harder to cancel the plan. Why leave it to the last minute when you could have done it the day before, week before anytime prior to the renewal date? I am an Adobe Creative Cloud customer and even I am aware of how their billing works.

tetrep 11y ago
> I am an Adobe Creative Cloud customer and even I am aware of how their billing works. To my knowledge, this is exactly the same as to how any subscription works. They always auto-renew, although some let you opt out. Heck, it's part of the definition of the word "subscribe". Without timestamps there's no way to be certain, but this entire conversation could have taken place over less than 10 minutes and it's highly unlikely it took much effort to type "no thanks, please cancel" a few times into a text box. Considering that it didn't take much effort to cancel it, why is customer service dissuading someone to cancel a subscription worthy of discussion?
- shawn-furyan 11y ago
  High pressure sales techniques are awful, and they exist because they work. I don't think having to say "no" 50 times is reasonable, and it makes you feel like an asshole just for not being an easy mark that can be pressured into buying something s/he doesn't want. I've learned to close the door in the face of over-aggressive solicitors, but I know people who have trouble with it, because it's objectively rude to do something like that. The only reason I find it acceptable is that these sales techniques are intentionally designed to exploit people's hesitancy at being rude to other human beings. So yes, it's common practice. That doesn't mean it's not a practice that is loathsome and bad for society. Note: I think strong arm is a completely reasonable description of this. The sales person offered multiple carrots, and then upon being rebuffed, brought out the stick (keep in mind that the context is someone cancelling on the last day of their subscription): >Chaitra: Devon, you have purchased a subscription with annual commitment, since you wish to cancel the subscription before the end of one year period, you will be billed 50% of your monthly rate for the remaining months in your annual commitment as early termination fee. > >Chaitra: If you pay early termination fee, you will not be able to use the product, however If you continue with the subscription with 2 month free subscription you will be able to use the subscription and also get two months free subscription. In this case, I would suggest you to take an advantage of two months free subscription. This wasn't a good faith misunderstanding, this was a situational script aimed at maximizing retention in the particular context. This is a lever that is being intentionally applied to cow people into buying an extra year of a service they don't want.
  - icebraining 11y ago
    I agree that the early termination fee is a dishonest ripoff. That said, it's a poor culture if people feel like assholes for having to refuse a few counter-offers (and no, I don't think it's a core human trait, as haggling is common around the world). Negotiation is an important skill to have as an adult, and this is the 101 level. One thing I do find disagreeable (though not to the point of considering it strong-arming) is the use of the client's first name. "Hi Devon"? Since when has "Mr. Campbell" stopped being the norm?
- cmurf 11y ago
  Well actually newspaper and magazine subscriptions pre-date cell and software subscriptions by decades. When you called to cancel, it's cancelled that day, and you get a pro-rated refund for the remaining balance, if any. The idea that it actually costs the company money to compute a pro-rata, and give your money back for unused/unwanted service or software is bunk. It's only because they've decided that's how they want it to work, and wrote it into the contract that way and their customers passively agree to that contract. So it's legal, it conforms to the written contract, buyer beware and all that, but it's simply incorrect to say that auto-renew is part of the definition of subscribe. No, that's how it works in some contracts.
PhasmaFelis 11y ago
> I would not call this "strong arming" just a sales consultant trained to try and keep a customer from leaving. This not something unique to Adobe, it happens when you try cancelling a phone plan, when you try switching utility providers and plenty of other things. How is that an excuse? "Yes, we're assholes, but so are all these other people?" We need to stop letting corporations whittle our standards down like this.

tetrep 11y ago

> I am an Adobe Creative Cloud customer and even I am aware of how their billing works. To my knowledge, this is exactly the same as to how any subscription works. They always auto-renew, although some let you opt out. Heck, it's part of the definition of the word "subscribe". Without timestamps there's no way to be certain, but this entire conversation could have taken place over less than 10 minutes and it's highly unlikely it took much effort to type "no thanks, please cancel" a few times into a text box. Considering that it didn't take much effort to cancel it, why is customer service dissuading someone to cancel a subscription worthy of discussion?

shawn-furyan 11y ago
High pressure sales techniques are awful, and they exist because they work. I don't think having to say "no" 50 times is reasonable, and it makes you feel like an asshole just for not being an easy mark that can be pressured into buying something s/he doesn't want. I've learned to close the door in the face of over-aggressive solicitors, but I know people who have trouble with it, because it's objectively rude to do something like that. The only reason I find it acceptable is that these sales techniques are intentionally designed to exploit people's hesitancy at being rude to other human beings. So yes, it's common practice. That doesn't mean it's not a practice that is loathsome and bad for society. Note: I think strong arm is a completely reasonable description of this. The sales person offered multiple carrots, and then upon being rebuffed, brought out the stick (keep in mind that the context is someone cancelling on the last day of their subscription): >Chaitra: Devon, you have purchased a subscription with annual commitment, since you wish to cancel the subscription before the end of one year period, you will be billed 50% of your monthly rate for the remaining months in your annual commitment as early termination fee. > >Chaitra: If you pay early termination fee, you will not be able to use the product, however If you continue with the subscription with 2 month free subscription you will be able to use the subscription and also get two months free subscription. In this case, I would suggest you to take an advantage of two months free subscription. This wasn't a good faith misunderstanding, this was a situational script aimed at maximizing retention in the particular context. This is a lever that is being intentionally applied to cow people into buying an extra year of a service they don't want.
- icebraining 11y ago
  I agree that the early termination fee is a dishonest ripoff. That said, it's a poor culture if people feel like assholes for having to refuse a few counter-offers (and no, I don't think it's a core human trait, as haggling is common around the world). Negotiation is an important skill to have as an adult, and this is the 101 level. One thing I do find disagreeable (though not to the point of considering it strong-arming) is the use of the client's first name. "Hi Devon"? Since when has "Mr. Campbell" stopped being the norm?
cmurf 11y ago
Well actually newspaper and magazine subscriptions pre-date cell and software subscriptions by decades. When you called to cancel, it's cancelled that day, and you get a pro-rated refund for the remaining balance, if any. The idea that it actually costs the company money to compute a pro-rata, and give your money back for unused/unwanted service or software is bunk. It's only because they've decided that's how they want it to work, and wrote it into the contract that way and their customers passively agree to that contract. So it's legal, it conforms to the written contract, buyer beware and all that, but it's simply incorrect to say that auto-renew is part of the definition of subscribe. No, that's how it works in some contracts.

PhasmaFelis 11y ago

> I would not call this "strong arming" just a sales consultant trained to try and keep a customer from leaving. This not something unique to Adobe, it happens when you try cancelling a phone plan, when you try switching utility providers and plenty of other things. How is that an excuse? "Yes, we're assholes, but so are all these other people?" We need to stop letting corporations whittle our standards down like this.