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We will never have human level AI until we can properly understand, define, and model human intelligence. While we are advancing at a very rapid pace on that fr

We will never have human level AI until we can properly understand, define, and model human intelligence. While we are advancing at a very rapid pace on that front, we are still years away from the field being considered mature.

disantlor 11y ago
Why? All sorts of behavior emerges out of seemingly simplified rules/systems. Could the convoluted and beautiful patterns that can come from Conway's game of life be predicted in advance? What about the sort of meta "intelligence" on display by ant colonies when taken as a whole? Or how connecting disparate groups of people over the globe changes the way humanity as a whole reacts to situations. I'm no expert and these examples probably betray the shallowness of my understanding as much as they make a point. But if they do make a point it's that we don't need to (and often can't) understand what will result from systems that have a built in feedback mechanism.
- bsbechtel 11y ago
  >>But if they do make a point it's that we don't need to (and often can't) understand what will result from systems that have a built in feedback mechanism. That may be true, but my point was more to the effect that there are things we fail to understand about human nature that drives decision making, actions, and goal setting within our own society, let alone other cultures. Consider how factors such as your own personal energy levels affect your decision making throughout the day (decision fatigue)...how are we going to model something like that with AI? Or consider that many different cultures around the world have very different societal goals than Americans do pursuing personal freedom and material well-being. How do we consider those different abstract goals, that most citizens don't even realize or understand why they pursue, because it's just how they have been raised. How do environmental factors drive decision making in different climates? Those who live in a very cold climate have to take different precautions and deal with different risks than those in warm climates do. What about locally available resources? Many business (and design) decisions are made based as much upon supply chain availability and risk management as they are customer demand. How does AI consider these factors when AI doesn't even know these things exist? These are the things I was talking about that we still have difficulty understanding about each other, let alone being able to program a robot to imitate.
  - disantlor 11y ago
    Maybe the difference between a human intelligence and a super intelligence comes, in part, from not being affected by day to day mood/chemical processes that are probably related to keeping the body as a whole functioning. The super intelligence has an intelligence that's isolated from these needs. I don't really have an answer to all your points, just a general feeling that AI needed be just like our "I" to be effectively superior.
j1o1h1n 11y ago
Similarly, we will never have fusion weapons until we can correctly simulate and model a nuclear reaction on a computer.
mej10 11y ago
You state this as fact. Link to credible science saying that it is true. This is like saying we have to completely understand how birds fly before we can make planes, or how fish swim before making submarines. Or how muscles cause movement before inventing the wheel. Or how chemical reactions work before we can make fire. You don't have to fully understand the original system or be able to recreate it to make something that exhibits some or all of the desirable properties. This has been shown time and time again.

disantlor 11y ago

Why? All sorts of behavior emerges out of seemingly simplified rules/systems. Could the convoluted and beautiful patterns that can come from Conway's game of life be predicted in advance? What about the sort of meta "intelligence" on display by ant colonies when taken as a whole? Or how connecting disparate groups of people over the globe changes the way humanity as a whole reacts to situations. I'm no expert and these examples probably betray the shallowness of my understanding as much as they make a point. But if they do make a point it's that we don't need to (and often can't) understand what will result from systems that have a built in feedback mechanism.

bsbechtel 11y ago
>>But if they do make a point it's that we don't need to (and often can't) understand what will result from systems that have a built in feedback mechanism. That may be true, but my point was more to the effect that there are things we fail to understand about human nature that drives decision making, actions, and goal setting within our own society, let alone other cultures. Consider how factors such as your own personal energy levels affect your decision making throughout the day (decision fatigue)...how are we going to model something like that with AI? Or consider that many different cultures around the world have very different societal goals than Americans do pursuing personal freedom and material well-being. How do we consider those different abstract goals, that most citizens don't even realize or understand why they pursue, because it's just how they have been raised. How do environmental factors drive decision making in different climates? Those who live in a very cold climate have to take different precautions and deal with different risks than those in warm climates do. What about locally available resources? Many business (and design) decisions are made based as much upon supply chain availability and risk management as they are customer demand. How does AI consider these factors when AI doesn't even know these things exist? These are the things I was talking about that we still have difficulty understanding about each other, let alone being able to program a robot to imitate.
- disantlor 11y ago
  Maybe the difference between a human intelligence and a super intelligence comes, in part, from not being affected by day to day mood/chemical processes that are probably related to keeping the body as a whole functioning. The super intelligence has an intelligence that's isolated from these needs. I don't really have an answer to all your points, just a general feeling that AI needed be just like our "I" to be effectively superior.

j1o1h1n 11y ago

Similarly, we will never have fusion weapons until we can correctly simulate and model a nuclear reaction on a computer.

mej10 11y ago

You state this as fact. Link to credible science saying that it is true. This is like saying we have to completely understand how birds fly before we can make planes, or how fish swim before making submarines. Or how muscles cause movement before inventing the wheel. Or how chemical reactions work before we can make fire. You don't have to fully understand the original system or be able to recreate it to make something that exhibits some or all of the desirable properties. This has been shown time and time again.