Nicely put. Very nicely put. I don't know how you came up with "disdainful"; it's more sort of sad and weary as I read it now. After all, I started with "Beats

Nicely put. Very nicely put. I don't know how you came up with "disdainful"; it's more sort of sad and weary as I read it now. After all, I started with "Beats me" - such a decision would have to be very local. The first rule of 'C' is "don't use 'C'" these days... the people I know DON'T swagger; that was my point. The "professionals" vs. "enthusiasts" divide is extremely interesting in all fields of endeavor. I'm definitely on the "professional" side. I... don't think 'C' programmers are "above any norm"; they just sort of know where the rocks are right under the surface of the water. It's more difficult to explain than to do. If a bunch of people misrepresent themselves as ... badass because they sling 'C', I can't help that. The appropriate mentality for it is one of caution. I specifically called that out here... It also matters less because coding a system is roughly 5-10% of the actual cost of most deployed systems. Language matters much less than mechanism. Meanwhile, the worst horrors are inflicted using systems like SAP. Don't feel too sorry for me; I use at least three language systems every day, and have messed with ... dozens ( all resulting in deployed code at some level) , including graphical CASE tools.