4 ms·

> Or, basically, white people don't believe black people's pain If a guy is rushed into the ER, you, as a doctor or nurse, don't have to believe anything. Just

by finid 11y ago

> Or, basically, white people don't believe black people's pain If a guy is rushed into the ER, you, as a doctor or nurse, don't have to believe anything. Just run the patient through the proper protocols, regardless of race, age or gender. Otherwise what's the Hippocratic Oath all about?

carbocation 11y ago
The same is true for hiring, etc. Sitting here behind computer monitors we see the solution so clearly: to stop racism, just ignore race. But out in the real world after we step away from these screens, the futility of that demand becomes clear. You and I commit implicitly biased acts on a routine basis that we don't even notice. Doctors don't under-treat black patients' pain because they explicitly dislike black people. They do so due to implicit bias. You cannot admonish people into shedding their implicit biases. The solution is to build a system that is resilient to implicit bias.
- finid 11y ago
  Bias is a built-in human feature. In fact, all living things are hard-wired to discriminate. So your "implicit bias" is right. Most of the time we engage in it unconsciously. Sometimes that "implicit bias shows up as racism, nepotism or some other form of favoritism. > Doctors don't under-treat black patients' pain because they explicitly dislike black people. They do so due to implicit bias. No necessarily true. A racist doctor will under-treat black patients simply because he's racist. And note that I'm referring to a racist doctor, because not all white doctors are racist.
brookside 11y ago
Ok but the opioid pain medication would be prescribed after the dust has settled from that ER scramble. Doctors don't have a way to measure pain, other then the patient's own reporting (often they are asked to describe it on the scale of 1-10). So belief is a central part of the process.
JshWright 11y ago
It's not like there is a machine or a blood test you can use to find out the person is experiencing "37.3 pain". The 'protocols' you refer to will necessarily require a subjective evaluation of the pain the patient is experiencing (as well as assessing other social factors that may point to a higher risk of abuse). There are people who will call the ambulance or show up at the ER, claiming pain, when in fact they are 'simply' looking for drugs to meet their addiction. The only person who knows how much pain the patient is actually experiencing is the patient themself. However, blindly relying on them to accurately report that level pain is simply not an option, given the potential for abuse.
- TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
  I think the problem is not so much abuse as it is the vagueness of it. If someone says they're in a lot of pain, how much pain is that? Your perception is at least partly emotional.

by finid 11y ago

carbocation 11y ago

The same is true for hiring, etc. Sitting here behind computer monitors we see the solution so clearly: to stop racism, just ignore race. But out in the real world after we step away from these screens, the futility of that demand becomes clear. You and I commit implicitly biased acts on a routine basis that we don't even notice. Doctors don't under-treat black patients' pain because they explicitly dislike black people. They do so due to implicit bias. You cannot admonish people into shedding their implicit biases. The solution is to build a system that is resilient to implicit bias.

finid 11y ago
Bias is a built-in human feature. In fact, all living things are hard-wired to discriminate. So your "implicit bias" is right. Most of the time we engage in it unconsciously. Sometimes that "implicit bias shows up as racism, nepotism or some other form of favoritism. > Doctors don't under-treat black patients' pain because they explicitly dislike black people. They do so due to implicit bias. No necessarily true. A racist doctor will under-treat black patients simply because he's racist. And note that I'm referring to a racist doctor, because not all white doctors are racist.

brookside 11y ago

Ok but the opioid pain medication would be prescribed after the dust has settled from that ER scramble. Doctors don't have a way to measure pain, other then the patient's own reporting (often they are asked to describe it on the scale of 1-10). So belief is a central part of the process.

JshWright 11y ago

It's not like there is a machine or a blood test you can use to find out the person is experiencing "37.3 pain". The 'protocols' you refer to will necessarily require a subjective evaluation of the pain the patient is experiencing (as well as assessing other social factors that may point to a higher risk of abuse). There are people who will call the ambulance or show up at the ER, claiming pain, when in fact they are 'simply' looking for drugs to meet their addiction. The only person who knows how much pain the patient is actually experiencing is the patient themself. However, blindly relying on them to accurately report that level pain is simply not an option, given the potential for abuse.

TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
I think the problem is not so much abuse as it is the vagueness of it. If someone says they're in a lot of pain, how much pain is that? Your perception is at least partly emotional.