6 ms·

Trust is indeed a huge issue that seems to be misunderstood and misapplied in the software community. Stallman's views on trust may seem radical, but he's prett

by joesmo 11y ago

Trust is indeed a huge issue that seems to be misunderstood and misapplied in the software community. Stallman's views on trust may seem radical, but he's pretty much right. Over and over I see the things he warns about come true and I trust companies and other entities less and less. It's kind of disheartening to see the huge potential of cloud infrastructure, amongst other technologies, going to waste.

kuschku 11y ago
It’s always said when the worst dystopic visions become truth. [1] http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.en.html http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.en.html [2] http://www.wired.com/2015/04/dmca-ownership-john-deere/ http://www.wired.com/2015/04/dmca-ownership-john-deere/
- oldmanjay 11y ago
  It's a pretty hard stretch to qualify our society as dystopic because of John Deere and kindle
  - jacobush 11y ago
    Yes. There are much worse things going on. They are nice case studies though.
  - kuschku 11y ago
    The society as a whole is not, but in specific areas the most dystopic visions came true. Not overall, but in a few specific areas.
such_a_casual 11y ago
His views only seem radical because of the way he presents them. Easily his biggest mistake is naming his movement Free Software instead of something like Software Liberties or Software Rights, and then refusing to change the name at any point after the realization of this error. Then he says things like, "They're trying to put a cloud inside your head." Which is just laughable. Most of the time he's speaking very generally without citing specific facts to back up his arguments (In the video he mentions that software is malicious, why not mention one of them so everyone knows what he means by that). Which causes anyone who doesn't know what he's talking about to write him off, and the people who do know what he's talking about don't need to hear what he has to say. In a real debate about these topics, people usually hide behind capitalist ideals to explain the immoral use of software. As opposed to trying to argue that immoral use doesn't exist, or isn't prevelent.
- irq-1 11y ago
  Here are two of Stallmans' writings addressing "Free" and "Cloud". > Why Open Source misses the point of Free Software > When we call software “free,” we mean that it respects the users' essential freedoms: the freedom to run it, to study and change it, and to redistribute copies with or without changes. This is a matter of freedom, not price, so think of “free speech,” not “free beer.” https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.html https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.... > Who does that server really serve? > On the Internet, proprietary software isn't the only way to lose your freedom. Service as a Software Substitute, or SaaSS, is another way to give someone else power over your computing. https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-serve.en.html https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-s...
  - EGreg 11y ago
    It is a false dichotomy for Stallman to keep saying the only alternative to the word Free is Open Source. I have written to him and suggested terms such as Liberating Software, which is more accurate. Or at least Freeing Software. But he never even responded.
  - such_a_casual 11y ago
    What do any of those things have to do with my thesis? Can you restate the main point of my argument?
- belorn 11y ago
  The argument made against "Software Liberties" is that any word that is similar to liberalism is highly associated with the US two-party political system. RMS has repeatedly suggested that the word "liberty" is superior over "free" in nations outside the US where that association doesn't exist.
  - such_a_casual 11y ago
    I'm pretty sure the word "liberties" is used more by the tea party and other right wing movements than by the left. Who is making this argument? Do they have any data to back that up?
legulere 11y ago
There is also lots of points where he's pretty detached from reality. One reason he doesn't browse the web is that non free software javascript would somehow hurt him. He's the reason why GCC is so monolithic and why so much progress was hindered in the last years. He thinks that non-copyleft licensed projects can't work when there are tons of counterexamples.
- vezzy-fnord 11y ago
  One reason he doesn't browse the web is that non free software javascript would somehow hurt him. Not using social media is considered a badge of honor by many. Not using the web (although that's not entirely true in RMS' case, he just heavily limits it [1]) should be considered a commendable feat, too. Since it's RMS, though, it's just another opportunity to disparage him. He thinks that non-copyleft licensed projects can't work when there are tons of counterexamples. Where has he said they "can't" work? The FSF lists scenarios where they endorse non-copyleft here: https://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-recommendations.html https://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-recommendations.html RMS himself has encouraged use of non-copyleft in the cases of e.g. Qt and Ogg Vorbis, either as transitional licenses or as means to free up the software when the alternative would have been remaining proprietary. He says as much here: https://lwn.net/2001/0301/a/rms-ov-license.php3 https://lwn.net/2001/0301/a/rms-ov-license.php3 [1] https://stallman.org/stallman-computing.html https://stallman.org/stallman-computing.html
  - tbrownaw 11y ago
    Not using social media is considered a badge of honor by many. Sure, but why? Because it's difficult? Because it's useless newfangled morally-corrupting stuff? Not using the web ... should be considered a commendable feat, too. Again, why? The web is useful. Is it also commendable to cook all your own food from scratch, do all your laundry by hand, avoid use of electricity, etc?
    - EGreg 11y ago
      Yes, maybe if it wasn't marketed so much from economies of scale we won't be using up so many resources on this planet and making so much garbage.
EGreg 11y ago
That's because "the cloud" is centralized
CaptSpify 11y ago
I used to roll my eyes at him. I thought he was just a nut. Turns out, he was right, and I was wrong. I hate the fact that he's right, because the warnings he made seemed so obviously stupid to implement. Yet here we are. I now respect him immensely
- nabla9 11y ago
  Stallman stubborn and incredibly unreasonable. There are many things I disagree with him, but when he is right he is right. I'm very grateful that he exists. RMS reminds me of this GBS quote: “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

by joesmo 11y ago

kuschku 11y ago

It’s always said when the worst dystopic visions become truth. [1] http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.en.html http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.en.html [2] http://www.wired.com/2015/04/dmca-ownership-john-deere/ http://www.wired.com/2015/04/dmca-ownership-john-deere/

oldmanjay 11y ago
It's a pretty hard stretch to qualify our society as dystopic because of John Deere and kindle
- jacobush 11y ago
  Yes. There are much worse things going on. They are nice case studies though.
- kuschku 11y ago
  The society as a whole is not, but in specific areas the most dystopic visions came true. Not overall, but in a few specific areas.

such_a_casual 11y ago

His views only seem radical because of the way he presents them. Easily his biggest mistake is naming his movement Free Software instead of something like Software Liberties or Software Rights, and then refusing to change the name at any point after the realization of this error. Then he says things like, "They're trying to put a cloud inside your head." Which is just laughable. Most of the time he's speaking very generally without citing specific facts to back up his arguments (In the video he mentions that software is malicious, why not mention one of them so everyone knows what he means by that). Which causes anyone who doesn't know what he's talking about to write him off, and the people who do know what he's talking about don't need to hear what he has to say. In a real debate about these topics, people usually hide behind capitalist ideals to explain the immoral use of software. As opposed to trying to argue that immoral use doesn't exist, or isn't prevelent.

irq-1 11y ago
Here are two of Stallmans' writings addressing "Free" and "Cloud". > Why Open Source misses the point of Free Software > When we call software “free,” we mean that it respects the users' essential freedoms: the freedom to run it, to study and change it, and to redistribute copies with or without changes. This is a matter of freedom, not price, so think of “free speech,” not “free beer.” https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.html https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.... > Who does that server really serve? > On the Internet, proprietary software isn't the only way to lose your freedom. Service as a Software Substitute, or SaaSS, is another way to give someone else power over your computing. https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-serve.en.html https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-s...
- EGreg 11y ago
  It is a false dichotomy for Stallman to keep saying the only alternative to the word Free is Open Source. I have written to him and suggested terms such as Liberating Software, which is more accurate. Or at least Freeing Software. But he never even responded.
- such_a_casual 11y ago
  What do any of those things have to do with my thesis? Can you restate the main point of my argument?
belorn 11y ago
The argument made against "Software Liberties" is that any word that is similar to liberalism is highly associated with the US two-party political system. RMS has repeatedly suggested that the word "liberty" is superior over "free" in nations outside the US where that association doesn't exist.
- such_a_casual 11y ago
  I'm pretty sure the word "liberties" is used more by the tea party and other right wing movements than by the left. Who is making this argument? Do they have any data to back that up?

legulere 11y ago

There is also lots of points where he's pretty detached from reality. One reason he doesn't browse the web is that non free software javascript would somehow hurt him. He's the reason why GCC is so monolithic and why so much progress was hindered in the last years. He thinks that non-copyleft licensed projects can't work when there are tons of counterexamples.

vezzy-fnord 11y ago
One reason he doesn't browse the web is that non free software javascript would somehow hurt him. Not using social media is considered a badge of honor by many. Not using the web (although that's not entirely true in RMS' case, he just heavily limits it [1]) should be considered a commendable feat, too. Since it's RMS, though, it's just another opportunity to disparage him. He thinks that non-copyleft licensed projects can't work when there are tons of counterexamples. Where has he said they "can't" work? The FSF lists scenarios where they endorse non-copyleft here: https://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-recommendations.html https://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-recommendations.html RMS himself has encouraged use of non-copyleft in the cases of e.g. Qt and Ogg Vorbis, either as transitional licenses or as means to free up the software when the alternative would have been remaining proprietary. He says as much here: https://lwn.net/2001/0301/a/rms-ov-license.php3 https://lwn.net/2001/0301/a/rms-ov-license.php3 [1] https://stallman.org/stallman-computing.html https://stallman.org/stallman-computing.html
- tbrownaw 11y ago
  Not using social media is considered a badge of honor by many. Sure, but why? Because it's difficult? Because it's useless newfangled morally-corrupting stuff? Not using the web ... should be considered a commendable feat, too. Again, why? The web is useful. Is it also commendable to cook all your own food from scratch, do all your laundry by hand, avoid use of electricity, etc?
  - EGreg 11y ago
    Yes, maybe if it wasn't marketed so much from economies of scale we won't be using up so many resources on this planet and making so much garbage.

EGreg 11y ago

That's because "the cloud" is centralized

CaptSpify 11y ago

I used to roll my eyes at him. I thought he was just a nut. Turns out, he was right, and I was wrong. I hate the fact that he's right, because the warnings he made seemed so obviously stupid to implement. Yet here we are. I now respect him immensely

nabla9 11y ago
Stallman stubborn and incredibly unreasonable. There are many things I disagree with him, but when he is right he is right. I'm very grateful that he exists. RMS reminds me of this GBS quote: “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman