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Actually it was human rights organizations and other NGOs which were reporting on the brutal realities of Iran and asking the US, Canada, Europe and the UN to t

by lingben 11y ago

Actually it was human rights organizations and other NGOs which were reporting on the brutal realities of Iran and asking the US, Canada, Europe and the UN to take action about the extrajudicial assassinations, the lack of due process, the tortures, etc. The 'other side' is what the other side has always been. Normal people going on about their lives. The same is true for North Korea or Burma, etc. People are people. No one has a personal grudge against Iranians as a people or individuals. The government however should be held accountable and justice demands consequences for their actions.

markdown 11y ago
> Normal people going on about their lives. The same is true for North Korea or Burma, etc. Most people in the world realise this, but then most people aren't residents of the United States. If online commentary is anything to go by, US citizens have been totally brainwashed by government propaganda. I mean, your president called those countries the "Axis of Evil". Think about that for a minute.
- krapp 11y ago
  > If online commentary is anything to go by, US citizens have been totally brainwashed by government propaganda. The internet, like the US, is a large and diverse place, with varying political, cultural and intellectual identities. You're just cherry picking to assemble a strawman "ignorant, brainwashed American" to knock down, but as straw Americans go, if it depends on internet comments to provide an unbiased reflection of reality, it's not very substantive. If online commentary were anything to go by, the earth is flat and space-jews did 9/11.
  - markdown 11y ago
    Would you accept that most Americans believe what their government tells them? I mean, politicians on the campaign trail can't be trusted, but when the head honchos of the US "defence" forces, the Secretary of State, and the President of the United States stands in front of the nations media and talk about the foreign bogeymen who're out to get them, would you accept that most Americans believe them? Then you have the Fox News and dozens of right wing radio talk shows pounding on the same drums... creating more fear about these foreign evils who hate them "for their freedoms" and who "want to impose sharia law on the world. The propaganda machine in the US is extremely efficient... so well oiled that most people don't see it. Even the moving parts of the machine believe that they're doing good and aren't out to fool anyone. This type of brainwashing is less the Pyongyang brand, and more of the type that the beauty product companies use to tell women they're too fat.
    - krapp 11y ago
      >Would you accept that most Americans believe what their government tells them? Often, but not always. I think Americans will believe what they're told not because they believe the government is never wrong but because they believe what the news tells them and they simply don't care enough to dig deeper. Americans also tend to believe whatever confirms their existing biases. I suspect this is not a uniquely American problem, though. > but when the head honchos of the US "defence" forces, the Secretary of State, and the President of the United States stands in front of the nations media and talk about the foreign bogeymen who're out to get them, would you accept that most Americans believe them? Even at the height of the post 9/11 paranoia and the Iraq war, there was plenty of skepticism and criticism of Bush's actions. Some (admittedly many) Americans thought Bush was a hero (and still do,) and others thought he was an idiot who was playing out a power fantasy in the Middle East. So it's not really the case that the whole country swallowed the government's arguments hook, line and sinker. >Then you have the Fox News and dozens of right wing radio talk shows pounding on the same drums... The thing with right-wing talk radio and Fox News is it's designed to preach to the choir, and it does, and the choir is large and boisterous, but it's a laughingstock to a lot of people as well. Is it effective propaganda if it only works on people who shared its biases to begin with? To paraphrase Obi-Wan Kenobi here, what you're saying is true, but only from a certain point of view, and a narrow-minded view at that. As with any population of this size, pinning it down to any one political stereotype is difficult - our lunatic fringe is bigger than some countries.
      - markdown 11y ago
        If you look at how well Donald Trump is doing, you have to concede that the "fringe" is a bit more than a fringe these days.
        krapp 11y ago
        I will concede, it is disturbing that Donald Trump is as popular as he seems to be. But to be fair, he is a celebrity and can afford to literally force the country to listen to him, and he doesn't actually have to appeal to anyone but the hardcore Republican base at this point. I feel like Donald Trump is the bursting of a pustule that's been festering under the skin of America's psyche for a while. But he hasn't even been nominated by his party yet, and I'm not entirely certain he would actually win a general election.

by lingben 11y ago

markdown 11y ago

> Normal people going on about their lives. The same is true for North Korea or Burma, etc. Most people in the world realise this, but then most people aren't residents of the United States. If online commentary is anything to go by, US citizens have been totally brainwashed by government propaganda. I mean, your president called those countries the "Axis of Evil". Think about that for a minute.

krapp 11y ago
> If online commentary is anything to go by, US citizens have been totally brainwashed by government propaganda. The internet, like the US, is a large and diverse place, with varying political, cultural and intellectual identities. You're just cherry picking to assemble a strawman "ignorant, brainwashed American" to knock down, but as straw Americans go, if it depends on internet comments to provide an unbiased reflection of reality, it's not very substantive. If online commentary were anything to go by, the earth is flat and space-jews did 9/11.
- markdown 11y ago
  Would you accept that most Americans believe what their government tells them? I mean, politicians on the campaign trail can't be trusted, but when the head honchos of the US "defence" forces, the Secretary of State, and the President of the United States stands in front of the nations media and talk about the foreign bogeymen who're out to get them, would you accept that most Americans believe them? Then you have the Fox News and dozens of right wing radio talk shows pounding on the same drums... creating more fear about these foreign evils who hate them "for their freedoms" and who "want to impose sharia law on the world. The propaganda machine in the US is extremely efficient... so well oiled that most people don't see it. Even the moving parts of the machine believe that they're doing good and aren't out to fool anyone. This type of brainwashing is less the Pyongyang brand, and more of the type that the beauty product companies use to tell women they're too fat.
  - krapp 11y ago
    >Would you accept that most Americans believe what their government tells them? Often, but not always. I think Americans will believe what they're told not because they believe the government is never wrong but because they believe what the news tells them and they simply don't care enough to dig deeper. Americans also tend to believe whatever confirms their existing biases. I suspect this is not a uniquely American problem, though. > but when the head honchos of the US "defence" forces, the Secretary of State, and the President of the United States stands in front of the nations media and talk about the foreign bogeymen who're out to get them, would you accept that most Americans believe them? Even at the height of the post 9/11 paranoia and the Iraq war, there was plenty of skepticism and criticism of Bush's actions. Some (admittedly many) Americans thought Bush was a hero (and still do,) and others thought he was an idiot who was playing out a power fantasy in the Middle East. So it's not really the case that the whole country swallowed the government's arguments hook, line and sinker. >Then you have the Fox News and dozens of right wing radio talk shows pounding on the same drums... The thing with right-wing talk radio and Fox News is it's designed to preach to the choir, and it does, and the choir is large and boisterous, but it's a laughingstock to a lot of people as well. Is it effective propaganda if it only works on people who shared its biases to begin with? To paraphrase Obi-Wan Kenobi here, what you're saying is true, but only from a certain point of view, and a narrow-minded view at that. As with any population of this size, pinning it down to any one political stereotype is difficult - our lunatic fringe is bigger than some countries.
    - markdown 11y ago
      If you look at how well Donald Trump is doing, you have to concede that the "fringe" is a bit more than a fringe these days.
      - krapp 11y ago
        I will concede, it is disturbing that Donald Trump is as popular as he seems to be. But to be fair, he is a celebrity and can afford to literally force the country to listen to him, and he doesn't actually have to appeal to anyone but the hardcore Republican base at this point. I feel like Donald Trump is the bursting of a pustule that's been festering under the skin of America's psyche for a while. But he hasn't even been nominated by his party yet, and I'm not entirely certain he would actually win a general election.