4 ms·

(if you don't know the author, he's a web evangelist, working previously for Mozilla, now for Microsoft; now you can understand his frustration, in the times of

by jakub_g 11y ago

(if you don't know the author, he's a web evangelist, working previously for Mozilla, now for Microsoft; now you can understand his frustration, in the times of recent Chrome monoculture in the web) I wholeheartedly agree with the author and wanted to post another long rant here, but I resisted the temptation :) In this particular example of a WebGL demo, I think it was not exactly malicious, the issue was IMO most probably due to writing non-future-proof code, and then abandoning it (there was a related post last week about writing non-future-proof Python code that will break in python4, same applies here). Lots of early "HTML5" demos do not work anymore because they used some not-yet-standardized and/or prefixed syntaxes that have changed since etc. Anyway, the link to [1] is very interesting. Many people underestimate the risk of third-party JS server going down (or being slow), adblockers preventing some JS from executing etc. Edit: to clarify, I don't mean you should not use JS (heck I'm a JS developer, and IMHO the times of "progressive enhancement" are long gone, unless you serve almost only text content). I don't mean you should have 3 redundant servers to serve your JS from; just detecting that the thing didn't load, and not making assumption that it will be reliably delivered to the user in 0.1 s, would be good enough. There are pages out there that will totally break or fail to load if some non-important JS file is not loaded due to a network issue or whatever else. It doesn't require infinite amount of work to handle some cases like that (though, sadly getting management buy-in for even small things like this is not easy, and we might sometimes have to go against the flow for the good of our users). [1] http://kryogenix.org/code/browser/everyonehasjs.html http://kryogenix.org/code/browser/everyonehasjs.html

vonklaus 11y ago
<sarcasm> hahaha I love it. Better yet: Do your roads support horses? Many people own horses in America still[0] Have they got to the destination yet? FACT: All people who are not traveling, are not traveling by horseback. --socrates If you're on a highway and suddenly the edgecase of therebeing a fuckton of cars going fast on it occurs, suddenly they have to swerve to avoid a random cowboy and get in an accident, then they don't make it to their destination. Do your interstate or inter-province highways prevent horses? Loads of them do[1] You wouldn't download a car[2]? </sarcasm> ================================== Look, I get it, provide a good user experience. That's fine, I appreciate that. However, javascript is pretty ubiquitous, so what the fuck are people supposed to do? Check headers and sniff browser on every request (something the parent article implied was negative), then send 2 sets of javascript to the user, one to call a cdn, and one to call a local script if download fails or cdn not cached? Check if cdn is cached every time? I mean, sure there is some pretty good practices out there and you should be cognizant of that, but if you are just sending out a cat picture because you're a bored 16 year old kid learning how to use a new web technology like webgl, are we supposed to hold you to 5 9's worth of uptime and backwords compatability all the way to mosaic. Here is the answer (my answer really) you can do whatever the fuck you want, to the extent that wtfyw overlaps with what your users want, you can keep them. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horses_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horses_in_the_United_States A USDA census in 1959 showed the horse population had dropped to 4.5 million. Numbers began to rebound somewhat, and by 1968 there were about 7 million horses, mostly used for riding. In 2005, there were about 9 million horses. [1]http://www.rita.dot.gov/bts/sites/rita.dot.gov.bts/files/publications/journal_of_transportation_and_statistics/volume_07_number_23/html/paper_06/index.html http://www.rita.dot.gov/bts/sites/rita.dot.gov.bts/files/pub... [2]http://www.slideshare.net/arnoudengelfriet/you-wouldnt-download-a-car http://www.slideshare.net/arnoudengelfriet/you-wouldnt-downl...

by jakub_g 11y ago

vonklaus 11y ago

<sarcasm> hahaha I love it. Better yet: Do your roads support horses? Many people own horses in America still[0] Have they got to the destination yet? FACT: All people who are not traveling, are not traveling by horseback. --socrates If you're on a highway and suddenly the edgecase of therebeing a fuckton of cars going fast on it occurs, suddenly they have to swerve to avoid a random cowboy and get in an accident, then they don't make it to their destination. Do your interstate or inter-province highways prevent horses? Loads of them do[1] You wouldn't download a car[2]? </sarcasm> ================================== Look, I get it, provide a good user experience. That's fine, I appreciate that. However, javascript is pretty ubiquitous, so what the fuck are people supposed to do? Check headers and sniff browser on every request (something the parent article implied was negative), then send 2 sets of javascript to the user, one to call a cdn, and one to call a local script if download fails or cdn not cached? Check if cdn is cached every time? I mean, sure there is some pretty good practices out there and you should be cognizant of that, but if you are just sending out a cat picture because you're a bored 16 year old kid learning how to use a new web technology like webgl, are we supposed to hold you to 5 9's worth of uptime and backwords compatability all the way to mosaic. Here is the answer (my answer really) you can do whatever the fuck you want, to the extent that wtfyw overlaps with what your users want, you can keep them. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horses_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horses_in_the_United_States A USDA census in 1959 showed the horse population had dropped to 4.5 million. Numbers began to rebound somewhat, and by 1968 there were about 7 million horses, mostly used for riding. In 2005, there were about 9 million horses. [1]http://www.rita.dot.gov/bts/sites/rita.dot.gov.bts/files/publications/journal_of_transportation_and_statistics/volume_07_number_23/html/paper_06/index.html http://www.rita.dot.gov/bts/sites/rita.dot.gov.bts/files/pub... [2]http://www.slideshare.net/arnoudengelfriet/you-wouldnt-download-a-car http://www.slideshare.net/arnoudengelfriet/you-wouldnt-downl...