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Quantity is not quality... You could perfectly dont understand the Drupal core and still build billion Drupal site. And after reading your critics, you seem to

Quantity is not quality... You could perfectly dont understand the Drupal core and still build billion Drupal site. And after reading your critics, you seem to really don't understand how Drupal entities work.

jacquesm 11y ago
You keep making sweeping statements about both drupal and about me without providing a single bit of information to the discussion, if you have factual information to contribute about why what I say is inaccurate I'm all ears. I've provided that (1) drupal is inefficient, (2) drupal sucks when it comes to backwards compatibility, (3) that drupal has a totally broken approach when it comes to data base schema design and finally (4) that other CMS's (such as Symfony2 and Laravel, and Yii as well) in the PHP ecosystem show that it is entirely possible to avoid most of these pitfalls. You say that 'drupal is how CMS's should be done, that's why all others fail' when in fact most of these others are succeeding where drupal is losing ground to all of the above and to the likes of wordpress and joomla (though those have less functionality). If you feel that drupal is how a CMS should be done then I'm perfectly ok with that but don't make it seem as if that is anything more than your personal view with which I disagree for the above reasons. And even if you're limited to the PHP eco-system, there are lots of alternatives. One thing I did not mention, but which I'll be more than happy to comment on now is that another thing that bugged me about the drupal ecosystem is that it seems as if it is altogether too much self-centered, unwilling to absorb best practices from the rest of the industry and a fairly toxic community which tends to be openly hostile to anything and everything that is not 'drupal'. I don't like that particular aspect of drupal one bit and it is this kind of attitude that is the reason why drupal to this date sees such a huge level of abandonment when it comes to modules, past version and large numbers of sites marooned on that code. It shows a total lack of respect, care and understanding of the kind of issues that the users of these systems have to deal with. I understand perfectly well how drupal maps its external interface to it's data model and when I tell you that this approach is broken beyond repair it is not my understanding that is deficient, it is drupal, when seen against the backdrop of properly designed software, of which we -fortunately- have plenty of examples. If you wish to ignore all that that is entirely your freedom, but recognize that this is akin to a religious point of view, you support it because you are invested in it rather than because you are aware of the alternatives. A good data model and the cruft that drupal produces are not even on the same scale when it comes to maintainability and efficiency, if you feel like arguing that point with actual facts and data to back it up I'd be most interested but I fear you'll end up coming short or having to admit that maybe the drupal way isn't all that good after all.
- audessuscest 11y ago
  1. Symfony, Lavarel are not CMS 2. Drupal 8 is built on top of Symfony2 3. Saying Drupal is self centered show that you don't know Drupal community (They team up with Symfony and follow now many Symfony paradigm for example...) 4. Sorry but saying Drupal has a totally broken data model is very exaggerate, you may not like it, you can have critics, but it's a perfectly valid model, which works perfectly. 5. You don't provide much information either... 6. All cms/framework with a large module ecosystem have trouble with backward compatibilty, Drupal is not the worst. For example WP have trouble with compatibily between module for the same version of WP. Drupal don't have this issue because their guidelines are strict. 7. Drupal is loosing ground to Joomla ? For someone with high standard, it's funny that you mention Joomla and WP as better replacement to Drupal. Very funny. Because, yes, I know these alternatives and they are really poorly designed and not just the data model (I dont know why you said I don't know alternatives...) With all my love and respect.
dang 11y ago
Comments like this, as well as "you sound like you don't know what you're talking about", break the HN guidelines. Please edit incivility out of your comments here, and keep them substantive. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html

jacquesm 11y ago

You keep making sweeping statements about both drupal and about me without providing a single bit of information to the discussion, if you have factual information to contribute about why what I say is inaccurate I'm all ears. I've provided that (1) drupal is inefficient, (2) drupal sucks when it comes to backwards compatibility, (3) that drupal has a totally broken approach when it comes to data base schema design and finally (4) that other CMS's (such as Symfony2 and Laravel, and Yii as well) in the PHP ecosystem show that it is entirely possible to avoid most of these pitfalls. You say that 'drupal is how CMS's should be done, that's why all others fail' when in fact most of these others are succeeding where drupal is losing ground to all of the above and to the likes of wordpress and joomla (though those have less functionality). If you feel that drupal is how a CMS should be done then I'm perfectly ok with that but don't make it seem as if that is anything more than your personal view with which I disagree for the above reasons. And even if you're limited to the PHP eco-system, there are lots of alternatives. One thing I did not mention, but which I'll be more than happy to comment on now is that another thing that bugged me about the drupal ecosystem is that it seems as if it is altogether too much self-centered, unwilling to absorb best practices from the rest of the industry and a fairly toxic community which tends to be openly hostile to anything and everything that is not 'drupal'. I don't like that particular aspect of drupal one bit and it is this kind of attitude that is the reason why drupal to this date sees such a huge level of abandonment when it comes to modules, past version and large numbers of sites marooned on that code. It shows a total lack of respect, care and understanding of the kind of issues that the users of these systems have to deal with. I understand perfectly well how drupal maps its external interface to it's data model and when I tell you that this approach is broken beyond repair it is not my understanding that is deficient, it is drupal, when seen against the backdrop of properly designed software, of which we -fortunately- have plenty of examples. If you wish to ignore all that that is entirely your freedom, but recognize that this is akin to a religious point of view, you support it because you are invested in it rather than because you are aware of the alternatives. A good data model and the cruft that drupal produces are not even on the same scale when it comes to maintainability and efficiency, if you feel like arguing that point with actual facts and data to back it up I'd be most interested but I fear you'll end up coming short or having to admit that maybe the drupal way isn't all that good after all.

audessuscest 11y ago
1. Symfony, Lavarel are not CMS 2. Drupal 8 is built on top of Symfony2 3. Saying Drupal is self centered show that you don't know Drupal community (They team up with Symfony and follow now many Symfony paradigm for example...) 4. Sorry but saying Drupal has a totally broken data model is very exaggerate, you may not like it, you can have critics, but it's a perfectly valid model, which works perfectly. 5. You don't provide much information either... 6. All cms/framework with a large module ecosystem have trouble with backward compatibilty, Drupal is not the worst. For example WP have trouble with compatibily between module for the same version of WP. Drupal don't have this issue because their guidelines are strict. 7. Drupal is loosing ground to Joomla ? For someone with high standard, it's funny that you mention Joomla and WP as better replacement to Drupal. Very funny. Because, yes, I know these alternatives and they are really poorly designed and not just the data model (I dont know why you said I don't know alternatives...) With all my love and respect.

dang 11y ago

Comments like this, as well as "you sound like you don't know what you're talking about", break the HN guidelines. Please edit incivility out of your comments here, and keep them substantive. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html