5 ms·

But will still be used to fight crime, so?

cm2187 11y ago
Not everything courts deal with is crime. A divorce case isn't about crime (and I bet they will be major consumers of decrypting devices, looking for nasty pictures or conversations!). The president investigating who in his administration is talking to the press isn't about crime.
- adrianlmm 11y ago
  >(and I bet they will be major consumers of decrypting devices, looking for nasty pictures or conversations!). OK, and why would that be a bad thing? if it is done in the context of a case investigation.
  - spdustin 11y ago
    #1) because in many jurisdictions it has no bearing on the divorce itself, and #2) in many jurisdictions a person who flirts with a consenting adult over text hasn't actually committed any crime in doing so Which leads to... #3) what is the point of decrypting said personal communications except to vindicate the estranged party's already fully-formed assumption that their spouse is a wicked person, or to exact some kind of court-sanctioned revenge. I swear, sometimes in threads like this it's hard to tell if someone is trolling or legitimately can't ponder the unintended (or, perhaps, fully intended but thinly veiled) consequences of laws that serve to grant the state access to private communications.
    - hiq 11y ago
      > I swear, sometimes in threads like this it's hard to tell if someone is trolling or legitimately can't ponder the unintended (or, perhaps, fully intended but thinly veiled) consequences of laws that serve to grant the state access to private communications. The post you're answering to basically asks why removing privacy from society is a bad thing. I think that a simple link such as [1] is enough as an answer to this fairly common question, troll or not. [1]: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=998565 https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=998565 ('I've Got Nothing to Hide' and Other Misunderstandings of Privacy)
    - adrianlmm 11y ago
      Nobody is saying it is crime (I also mentioned unloyal behavior in my original post), but, in cases where there is evidence of infidelity why would that be a bad thing to decrypt the information if it helps in the case? And why are getting angry? do you feel unfortable that my concerts my be legit?
      - spdustin 11y ago
        If one suspects a spouse of infidelity, there are personal concerns related to trust and affection that need to be resolved. By the persons involved. Not by a judge, or a legislatively mandated compulsion to disclose every little thing, no matter how unrelated, you've ever said, into public record. Edit: You keep using the word "case". I do not think it means what you think it means.
        adrianlmm 11y ago
        And what about those situations where there is actually a case, why is a bad thing to use decryption to find the truth?
        runesoerensen 11y ago
        You've asked this question at least seven times in this thread. People have been surprisingly patient and given you a few answers. You may or may not agree, but please stop repeating yourself as it adversely affects the quality of the discussion.
        adrianlmm 11y ago
        >You've asked this question at least seven times in this thread w/o a proper answer, all I get is "Is not a case" and if I ask wht if there is case? I get people like you, so, do you have answer to the next question?: What if there is case? why is it bad to use decryption there?
        miscellaneous 11y ago
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
spdustin 11y ago
Civil cases are, by definition, not dealing with crimes. They're typically dealing with contractual obligations, or agreements of mutual and fair performance by two parties. If one was a good husband/wife in every respect, and occasionally got their libido raised by flirting with someone online, are they a bad person? Or, as the saying goes, "it doesn't matter where you get your appetite as long as you eat at home." If the racy conversations are a result of unhappiness in a relationship, it's a symptom and not a cause. If it were medicine, we'd aim to treat the cause in order to mitigate the symptoms, not punish the symptoms by making the patient parade them for the world to see.
- adrianlmm 11y ago
  I'm not saying it is a crime, I'm asking if decryption would help to clear the case then why is a bad thing?
  - spdustin 11y ago
    Not at all. Because your premise, based on there being a "case", is flawed. In many jurisdictions, infidelity doesn't matter in divorce. And in criminal matters, at least here in the US, there's that pesky fifth amendment right to contend with.
    - adrianlmm 11y ago
      >In many jurisdictions, infidelity doesn't matter in divorce In witch judiriction infidelity is no motive for divorce, I don't know any, and if that is the case? what about those judirictions where it is? why is a bad thing using decryption there?
      - spdustin 11y ago
        In most, where divorces are "no fault". Friend, if you suspect someone has cheated on you, HN isn't the place to go for validation. Talk to your partner.
CamperBob2 11y ago
You commit several crimes a day, just like the rest of us. Do you want them to use this law to fight those crimes?

Not everything courts deal with is crime. A divorce case isn't about crime (and I bet they will be major consumers of decrypting devices, looking for nasty pictures or conversations!). The president investigating who in his administration is talking to the press isn't about crime.

adrianlmm 11y ago
>(and I bet they will be major consumers of decrypting devices, looking for nasty pictures or conversations!). OK, and why would that be a bad thing? if it is done in the context of a case investigation.
- spdustin 11y ago
  #1) because in many jurisdictions it has no bearing on the divorce itself, and #2) in many jurisdictions a person who flirts with a consenting adult over text hasn't actually committed any crime in doing so Which leads to... #3) what is the point of decrypting said personal communications except to vindicate the estranged party's already fully-formed assumption that their spouse is a wicked person, or to exact some kind of court-sanctioned revenge. I swear, sometimes in threads like this it's hard to tell if someone is trolling or legitimately can't ponder the unintended (or, perhaps, fully intended but thinly veiled) consequences of laws that serve to grant the state access to private communications.
  - hiq 11y ago
    > I swear, sometimes in threads like this it's hard to tell if someone is trolling or legitimately can't ponder the unintended (or, perhaps, fully intended but thinly veiled) consequences of laws that serve to grant the state access to private communications. The post you're answering to basically asks why removing privacy from society is a bad thing. I think that a simple link such as [1] is enough as an answer to this fairly common question, troll or not. [1]: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=998565 https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=998565 ('I've Got Nothing to Hide' and Other Misunderstandings of Privacy)
  - adrianlmm 11y ago
    Nobody is saying it is crime (I also mentioned unloyal behavior in my original post), but, in cases where there is evidence of infidelity why would that be a bad thing to decrypt the information if it helps in the case? And why are getting angry? do you feel unfortable that my concerts my be legit?
    - spdustin 11y ago
      If one suspects a spouse of infidelity, there are personal concerns related to trust and affection that need to be resolved. By the persons involved. Not by a judge, or a legislatively mandated compulsion to disclose every little thing, no matter how unrelated, you've ever said, into public record. Edit: You keep using the word "case". I do not think it means what you think it means.
      - adrianlmm 11y ago
        And what about those situations where there is actually a case, why is a bad thing to use decryption to find the truth?
        runesoerensen 11y ago
        You've asked this question at least seven times in this thread. People have been surprisingly patient and given you a few answers. You may or may not agree, but please stop repeating yourself as it adversely affects the quality of the discussion.
        adrianlmm 11y ago
        >You've asked this question at least seven times in this thread w/o a proper answer, all I get is "Is not a case" and if I ask wht if there is case? I get people like you, so, do you have answer to the next question?: What if there is case? why is it bad to use decryption there?
        miscellaneous 11y ago

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

spdustin 11y ago

Civil cases are, by definition, not dealing with crimes. They're typically dealing with contractual obligations, or agreements of mutual and fair performance by two parties. If one was a good husband/wife in every respect, and occasionally got their libido raised by flirting with someone online, are they a bad person? Or, as the saying goes, "it doesn't matter where you get your appetite as long as you eat at home." If the racy conversations are a result of unhappiness in a relationship, it's a symptom and not a cause. If it were medicine, we'd aim to treat the cause in order to mitigate the symptoms, not punish the symptoms by making the patient parade them for the world to see.

adrianlmm 11y ago
I'm not saying it is a crime, I'm asking if decryption would help to clear the case then why is a bad thing?
- spdustin 11y ago
  Not at all. Because your premise, based on there being a "case", is flawed. In many jurisdictions, infidelity doesn't matter in divorce. And in criminal matters, at least here in the US, there's that pesky fifth amendment right to contend with.
  - adrianlmm 11y ago
    >In many jurisdictions, infidelity doesn't matter in divorce In witch judiriction infidelity is no motive for divorce, I don't know any, and if that is the case? what about those judirictions where it is? why is a bad thing using decryption there?
    - spdustin 11y ago
      In most, where divorces are "no fault". Friend, if you suspect someone has cheated on you, HN isn't the place to go for validation. Talk to your partner.

CamperBob2 11y ago

You commit several crimes a day, just like the rest of us. Do you want them to use this law to fight those crimes?