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"3+ years" is a filter for people who give up or have self-doubt. We put that on our job postings because it filters out people who don't think they are qualifi

"3+ years" is a filter for people who give up or have self-doubt. We put that on our job postings because it filters out people who don't think they are qualified. People with 1 year experience applying to a 3+ year position DO get their resumes glanced at (the reason I say 1 is because we rarely hire a straight up college grad, because we want someone who has a month of working in an office that understands the difference between the college sensitivity bubble and real life) A tough realization for the entry-level people: You're not special and your "skills" are meaningless. Entry-level hiring is a crapshoot. You just hope you get someone that is capable of learning so you don't waste 3 months of training and then have to go back to hiring the next useless entry-level person. My words of advice: If you're reading a job posting, you're not going to get the job. People get jobs by meeting other human beings. If you want to deal with jobs online, throw a bunch of random buzzwords on your linkedIn profile and wait for the recruiter swarm to come vett your bullshit.

logicfiction 11y ago
I'm sure this toxic hiring strategy serves your company's interests well, but is terrible for the industry. Let's all adopt this approach and in a few years there won't be anyone taking someone from 0 experience to 1-3 years.
- lloyd-christmas 11y ago
  Training someone for a job is expensive. Training two people for one job is even more expensive. Dragging me away from programming to review resumes/interview people that don't even think themselves qualified is that much more expensive. I'm happy to train someone. I've actually really enjoyed it over the years. What I don't like is having to train two people for the same position. THAT'S a toxic hiring strategy.
  - pekk 11y ago
    The first rule of getting hired is never to show any sign of humility or weakness. Pity that once you are actually in the job, it's not very helpful to have a bunch of egomaniacal Dunning-Kruger cases running around.
    - eropple 11y ago
      > The first rule of getting hired is never to show any sign of humility or weakness. I don't think this is true at all. I'm very comfortable saying "I have no idea" in an interview setting (though I think it's generally understood that I'll go find out), I'm generally up-front with weaknesses in that, hey, there are things that I just don't work well with. There are a bajillion jobs out there, and it doesn't make any sense to push a bad fit.
      - mikeash 11y ago
        It depends entirely on the company. The first rule of getting hired at a company run by sociopaths or brogrammers is never to show any sign of humility or weakness. Some people seem to think that's the only kind of company there is, so that bit is sometimes accidentally left out.
    - lloyd-christmas 11y ago
      Getting the interview is drastically different than getting the job. Filtering what you don't want is drastically different than choosing what you do want.
mikeash 11y ago
You lie just to make things slightly easier for yourself, and you think this is OK?
- lloyd-christmas 11y ago
  Yes. 100% and unequivocally yes. I don't understand how you could think that's wrong. When doing hiring, my job isn't to make you feel good about yourself or give everyone an equal chance. It's to _filter out talent_. I have better things to do than sift through 1000 extra resumes from people who don't even think themselves qualified.
  - invalidOrTaken 11y ago
    What are your thoughts on new hires who, when you tell them something, don't believe you, on the principle that you've lied to them before? Alternately: if we were to try and write this function: fn isStatementTrue (statement){ } and apply it to your statements to jobseekers and employees, how many lines of code would be necessary for it to achieve a 99% accuracy rate?
    - lloyd-christmas 11y ago
      When I'm hungry and I go to the fridge, I'm reasonably confident that when I open the door, I'm not going to start chewing on a stick of butter or bite into an onion. That doesn't mean I know what I want to eat. Filtering out what you don't want is a lot different than choosing what you do want, and you treat them differently. Both parties know that. I don't care about being an asshole to a sheet of paper than floats onto my desk on its way to the shredder. I'd never act like an asshole in an interview. If they are in the room, they are a potential coworker and will be treated as if they are already one. Your statement can't be applied to jobseekers and employees. They aren't the same Type.
  - mikeash 11y ago
    You don't understand how I could think that lying for selfish reasons is wrong?
pasquinelli 11y ago
and they say there's a shortage of tech workers.

logicfiction 11y ago

I'm sure this toxic hiring strategy serves your company's interests well, but is terrible for the industry. Let's all adopt this approach and in a few years there won't be anyone taking someone from 0 experience to 1-3 years.

lloyd-christmas 11y ago
Training someone for a job is expensive. Training two people for one job is even more expensive. Dragging me away from programming to review resumes/interview people that don't even think themselves qualified is that much more expensive. I'm happy to train someone. I've actually really enjoyed it over the years. What I don't like is having to train two people for the same position. THAT'S a toxic hiring strategy.
- pekk 11y ago
  The first rule of getting hired is never to show any sign of humility or weakness. Pity that once you are actually in the job, it's not very helpful to have a bunch of egomaniacal Dunning-Kruger cases running around.
  - eropple 11y ago
    > The first rule of getting hired is never to show any sign of humility or weakness. I don't think this is true at all. I'm very comfortable saying "I have no idea" in an interview setting (though I think it's generally understood that I'll go find out), I'm generally up-front with weaknesses in that, hey, there are things that I just don't work well with. There are a bajillion jobs out there, and it doesn't make any sense to push a bad fit.
    - mikeash 11y ago
      It depends entirely on the company. The first rule of getting hired at a company run by sociopaths or brogrammers is never to show any sign of humility or weakness. Some people seem to think that's the only kind of company there is, so that bit is sometimes accidentally left out.
  - lloyd-christmas 11y ago
    Getting the interview is drastically different than getting the job. Filtering what you don't want is drastically different than choosing what you do want.

mikeash 11y ago

You lie just to make things slightly easier for yourself, and you think this is OK?

lloyd-christmas 11y ago
Yes. 100% and unequivocally yes. I don't understand how you could think that's wrong. When doing hiring, my job isn't to make you feel good about yourself or give everyone an equal chance. It's to _filter out talent_. I have better things to do than sift through 1000 extra resumes from people who don't even think themselves qualified.
- invalidOrTaken 11y ago
  What are your thoughts on new hires who, when you tell them something, don't believe you, on the principle that you've lied to them before? Alternately: if we were to try and write this function: fn isStatementTrue (statement){ } and apply it to your statements to jobseekers and employees, how many lines of code would be necessary for it to achieve a 99% accuracy rate?
  - lloyd-christmas 11y ago
    When I'm hungry and I go to the fridge, I'm reasonably confident that when I open the door, I'm not going to start chewing on a stick of butter or bite into an onion. That doesn't mean I know what I want to eat. Filtering out what you don't want is a lot different than choosing what you do want, and you treat them differently. Both parties know that. I don't care about being an asshole to a sheet of paper than floats onto my desk on its way to the shredder. I'd never act like an asshole in an interview. If they are in the room, they are a potential coworker and will be treated as if they are already one. Your statement can't be applied to jobseekers and employees. They aren't the same Type.
- mikeash 11y ago
  You don't understand how I could think that lying for selfish reasons is wrong?

pasquinelli 11y ago

and they say there's a shortage of tech workers.