4 ms·

In a sense, Amiga demos were actually open source. Coders wrote in assembly, which is a short step from machine code. As most demos were compressed, it required

In a sense, Amiga demos were actually open source. Coders wrote in assembly, which is a short step from machine code. As most demos were compressed, it required an additional step to get to the actual machine code before you could disassemble. Alternatively using a cartridge like Datel's Action Replay makes it possible to dump the relevant routines to disk. Granted that reading disassembled code is a little more difficult than the original code, it is enough to learn how various demo routines were implemented.

hollerith 11y ago
Ever since the term "open source" was coined in 1998, it has had a precise definition[1], and according to that definition, most (all?) Amiga demos are not open source. 1: http://opensource.org/definition http://opensource.org/definition
- infodroid 11y ago
  It should have been clear I was referring to the spirit of sharing in the Amiga demo scene itself. It was no secret people were looking at each other's code. Reviewing the code was a way to learn about how to implement demo routines. But it was also a practical way to learn about programming the machine itself. Things you will not find in any manual. I was not making a claim about licensing. Perhaps you are not familiar with the notion of a metaphor.
incepted 11y ago
I understand your point but I think that would be stretching the definition of open source, which to me means that the text files used to write the program are available for anyone who want them. Just shipping a binary that happens to be very close to the language used to write that program wouldn't qualify as open source (and it would still be missing a lot of useful information, such as loop labels, memory location names, etc...).
- infodroid 11y ago
  The fact is there was little distribution of assembly source in the Amiga demo scene. So there is no way this can be called "open source" by the standards we recognize today. But the demo scene was anti-commercial in nature. The creators gave their demos away in good will. Nobody cared if their work was reused unless it was a blatant rip-off or was used for commercial gain. And disassembly was standard operating procedure to hack on the source code. So there was some sort of ethos at work, which seemed to arise naturally and spontaneously. And it reminds me of the open source spirit. > it would still be missing a lot of useful information, such as loop labels, memory location names, etc... I agree the disassembled code would be missing these things. But they are only conveniences for an assembly programmer. There is almost 1:1 correspondence between assembly code and machine code, which makes the task a lot easier than disassembling optimized C code for example. And on a practical level, the lack of labels and names doesn't stop you doing what you want with the code. For example the IDE used in the Scoopex tutorial above is ASM-One by TFA. But TFA are not the original author. ASM-One was a commercial product. And TFA added some very useful extensions despite not having the source code! I have used quite a few Amiga music trackers over the years. But they all descended from the disassembled code of Karsten Obarski's abandoned Ultimate Soundtracker [1]. The lack of assembly code was never a practical problem. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_Soundtracker https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_Soundtracker

hollerith 11y ago

Ever since the term "open source" was coined in 1998, it has had a precise definition[1], and according to that definition, most (all?) Amiga demos are not open source. 1: http://opensource.org/definition http://opensource.org/definition

infodroid 11y ago
It should have been clear I was referring to the spirit of sharing in the Amiga demo scene itself. It was no secret people were looking at each other's code. Reviewing the code was a way to learn about how to implement demo routines. But it was also a practical way to learn about programming the machine itself. Things you will not find in any manual. I was not making a claim about licensing. Perhaps you are not familiar with the notion of a metaphor.

incepted 11y ago

I understand your point but I think that would be stretching the definition of open source, which to me means that the text files used to write the program are available for anyone who want them. Just shipping a binary that happens to be very close to the language used to write that program wouldn't qualify as open source (and it would still be missing a lot of useful information, such as loop labels, memory location names, etc...).

infodroid 11y ago
The fact is there was little distribution of assembly source in the Amiga demo scene. So there is no way this can be called "open source" by the standards we recognize today. But the demo scene was anti-commercial in nature. The creators gave their demos away in good will. Nobody cared if their work was reused unless it was a blatant rip-off or was used for commercial gain. And disassembly was standard operating procedure to hack on the source code. So there was some sort of ethos at work, which seemed to arise naturally and spontaneously. And it reminds me of the open source spirit. > it would still be missing a lot of useful information, such as loop labels, memory location names, etc... I agree the disassembled code would be missing these things. But they are only conveniences for an assembly programmer. There is almost 1:1 correspondence between assembly code and machine code, which makes the task a lot easier than disassembling optimized C code for example. And on a practical level, the lack of labels and names doesn't stop you doing what you want with the code. For example the IDE used in the Scoopex tutorial above is ASM-One by TFA. But TFA are not the original author. ASM-One was a commercial product. And TFA added some very useful extensions despite not having the source code! I have used quite a few Amiga music trackers over the years. But they all descended from the disassembled code of Karsten Obarski's abandoned Ultimate Soundtracker [1]. The lack of assembly code was never a practical problem. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_Soundtracker https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_Soundtracker