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I really wonder if this isn't a case of people in different places being really different. For instance, people here in the US say particular generalizations a

I really wonder if this isn't a case of people in different places being really different. For instance, people here in the US say particular generalizations about "the Europeans" all the time, but there's a world of difference between the cultures of Spain, England, Sweden, Latvia, Greece, and Moldova (and Russia, which is part of Europe geographically). So when you say some police chiefs like armed citizens, I really wonder where those chiefs are. I'm willing to bet good money the chiefs of NYPD, Chicago PD, LAPD, etc. are not among those chiefs. However, I can certainly see some police chief in some pop. 30k city being like that; I can also see the police in a random small city like that not having any real problems with police misbehavior; we're likely judging ALL police nationwide for actions of a lot of police who seem to mostly be in cities. Are the cops in rural North Dakota known by the people there to shoot unarmed people or beat people or steal from them? Note also that I'm not claiming that it's only a small number of police that are bad cops; I think it varies by jurisdiction, and I think they stick up for each other and that a few obviously bad ones in a department probably indicate the entire department is bad (much like the old saying, "one bad apple spoils the entire bunch"). But not all police departments are the same, and again it seems we usually hear about problems in cities.

bitwize 11y ago
One of the armed-citizen supporters is the chief of the Detroit PD. Another is a former Cincinnati chief. I dunno, make up your own mind. And I was certainly not blaming all cops for police violence committed in the inner cities. The evidence we have to date suggests a pattern consistent with my statements that stressed out police officers who expect shit to go down at any minute are more likely to react with excessive violence. That's far more likely to be the situation in a major city. Police in rural and low-density areas are less likely to react this way.
- triplesec 11y ago
  This is fair and good, but not the whole story. Recruitment has emphasized the macho and gun aspects of policing in many jurisdictions, abetted by the provision of military equipment to PDs (including grenades and rocket launchers to LA school district FFS). There is a significant socialisation and culture problem within many PDs, due to lack of effective feedback mechanisms against such abuses of power. Add that to the inevitable draw of PDs to psychopaths (*notallcops ;) and the problems get out of hand, as we have now.

bitwize 11y ago

One of the armed-citizen supporters is the chief of the Detroit PD. Another is a former Cincinnati chief. I dunno, make up your own mind. And I was certainly not blaming all cops for police violence committed in the inner cities. The evidence we have to date suggests a pattern consistent with my statements that stressed out police officers who expect shit to go down at any minute are more likely to react with excessive violence. That's far more likely to be the situation in a major city. Police in rural and low-density areas are less likely to react this way.

triplesec 11y ago
This is fair and good, but not the whole story. Recruitment has emphasized the macho and gun aspects of policing in many jurisdictions, abetted by the provision of military equipment to PDs (including grenades and rocket launchers to LA school district FFS). There is a significant socialisation and culture problem within many PDs, due to lack of effective feedback mechanisms against such abuses of power. Add that to the inevitable draw of PDs to psychopaths (*notallcops ;) and the problems get out of hand, as we have now.