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I'm not opposed to basic income, and I do agree that the dynamics you're presenting might actually happen, in some cases for some people. I think though, that

I'm not opposed to basic income, and I do agree that the dynamics you're presenting might actually happen, in some cases for some people. I think though, that it's going to wind up being Just Another Government Program, if it were to be implemented in the US. There's just not enough money around to give everyone an income of more than maybe a thousand dollars a month. You'd need to really change how government finance works in order to be more generous.

mikeash 11y ago
I don't understand what you mean by "wind up being Just Another Government Program." $1,000/month seems like a highly reasonable amount. It's more than Finland is proposing.
- vinceguidry 11y ago
  I may have been too generous. By an order of magnitude. The US has 320 million people living in it. $1000/month * 320 million is $3.8 trillion/year. That, weirdly enough, is the size of the entire US budget for 2016. http://www.ndtv.com/world-news/us-republicans-pass-3-8-trillion-dollars-2016-budget-760837 http://www.ndtv.com/world-news/us-republicans-pass-3-8-trill...
  - mikeash 11y ago
    You'd want to look at state budgets too, since a lot of social programs happen there. Basic income is supposed to replace social security, unemployment, food stamps, and more. That's not a huge change to the number, but it's decent. There's no doubt taxes would need to increase to fund such a program, of course.
    - vinceguidry 11y ago
      > There's no doubt taxes would need to increase to fund such a program, of course. Who would pay them?
      - mikeash 11y ago
        Workers? It's not like everybody would stop working. The number of people content with $1,000/month is going to be pretty low.
        vinceguidry 11y ago
        I fail to see how that could possibly fly, politically. Everybody who works has to pay for everybody who doesn't want to work to just fuck around.
        mikeash 11y ago
        It's not qualitatively different than what we have now.
        ashark 11y ago
        Also, everyone gets the checks. Some workers' parents will be living off them. Their kids in college. Their cousin who was crippled in a car wreck. It's not like they won't know people benefiting who aren't exactly lazy freeloaders.
        eanzenberg 11y ago
        The magnitude is different, and you shouldn't be ignorant to that detail.
        vinceguidry 11y ago
        Doesn't answer the question. Politics doesn't truck to reason.

mikeash 11y ago

I don't understand what you mean by "wind up being Just Another Government Program." $1,000/month seems like a highly reasonable amount. It's more than Finland is proposing.

vinceguidry 11y ago
I may have been too generous. By an order of magnitude. The US has 320 million people living in it. $1000/month * 320 million is $3.8 trillion/year. That, weirdly enough, is the size of the entire US budget for 2016. http://www.ndtv.com/world-news/us-republicans-pass-3-8-trillion-dollars-2016-budget-760837 http://www.ndtv.com/world-news/us-republicans-pass-3-8-trill...
- mikeash 11y ago
  You'd want to look at state budgets too, since a lot of social programs happen there. Basic income is supposed to replace social security, unemployment, food stamps, and more. That's not a huge change to the number, but it's decent. There's no doubt taxes would need to increase to fund such a program, of course.
  - vinceguidry 11y ago
    > There's no doubt taxes would need to increase to fund such a program, of course. Who would pay them?
    - mikeash 11y ago
      Workers? It's not like everybody would stop working. The number of people content with $1,000/month is going to be pretty low.
      - vinceguidry 11y ago
        I fail to see how that could possibly fly, politically. Everybody who works has to pay for everybody who doesn't want to work to just fuck around.
        mikeash 11y ago
        It's not qualitatively different than what we have now.
        ashark 11y ago
        Also, everyone gets the checks. Some workers' parents will be living off them. Their kids in college. Their cousin who was crippled in a car wreck. It's not like they won't know people benefiting who aren't exactly lazy freeloaders.
        eanzenberg 11y ago
        The magnitude is different, and you shouldn't be ignorant to that detail.
        vinceguidry 11y ago
        Doesn't answer the question. Politics doesn't truck to reason.