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Sure, and I'm using "space zombies" humorously, to broadly refer to all sorts of apocalyptic / TEOTWAWKI scenarios that many hardcore preppers are preoccupied w

by f- 11y ago

Sure, and I'm using "space zombies" humorously, to broadly refer to all sorts of apocalyptic / TEOTWAWKI scenarios that many hardcore preppers are preoccupied with. Most prepper guides devote a lot of time to societal collapse, complete self-sufficiency, urban combat, and wilderness survival topics, while dedicating much less attention to more pragmatic risks that one can prepare for without making profound lifestyle changes or buying a farm.

LoSboccacc 11y ago
buying a farm is a huge huge risk tho, isn't it? in a scenario where society truly collapse, at least, it makes you a prime target. I'd like the other approach more: secret stash, going dark for a year, wait for tribes to stabilize the territory they control, emerge with some useful skill and bargain access/protection of a well armed/established tribe.
- maxerickson 11y ago
  You could barter out access to land in exchange for mutual defense. Any sort of real collapse is going to be accompanied by a lack of diesel and there aren't a whole lot of draft animals around, so farming is probably going to involve quite a lot of human labor.
  - dkersten 11y ago
    If I were to prepare for an apocalypse scenario, I would hoard bottled water, canned food, ammunition, and fuel. Roughly prioritised in that order. Possibly also batteries. I feel like these are the things that will become scarce and valuable. Or at least help survival (food/water + ammunition). This makes them useful to me and also useful for bartering. Of course, my stash needs to be safe both from the apocalypse scenario itself (will it still be in usable condition after a nuclear explosion, for example?) and from other survivors. It also needs to be somewhere I can actually get to it (safely). This, coupled with the fact that I would need large enough quantities of these items makes it rather difficult. But, regardless, that is my I haven't done anything about it and likely never will plan to survive the apocalypse.
    - maxerickson 11y ago
      Once you start talking about weeks, drinking water is easy. A relatively clean source, a big pot and a fire are all you need. It's also easier to move around an empty several gallon pot (or just break into a house and grab one) than it is to move around hundreds of gallons of water (a short supply for several people). (re fire, if you build a stash, you really want there to be trees around, and pretty good annual precipitation)
    - soylentcola 11y ago
      Also basic medicine/medical supplies. It's a staple plotline in apocalyptic fiction but it seems legit for any natural disaster or major civil unrest as well. Whether you're stuck out in a remote location for safety or in the middle of the aftermath of a natural disaster, having a good first aid kit and a supply of medication could save the life of you or someone else in need. The only bit that seems difficult (but again, this is from apocalyptic fiction so grain of salt) is that so many important medications like insulin, antibiotics, and strong painkillers can't just be purchased at generic wholesale and kept for use or trade in major emergencies or times of real hardship. In the stories it's always the pharmacies that get looted first and there's always some chapter or episode where a family member or friend is sick/injured and the characters desperately need to find antibiotics or insulin or the like. I understand that this is a bit silly going from fiction but those stories are appealing because they get you to think about how you would deal with life-threatening challenges. In a way it's odd that we have all of these important and effective medicines but whether the emergency services and doctors are blown to smithereens, bitten by zombies, or just overwhelmed with patients after an epic earthquake/flood/eruption there's really no way to access them without looting or black market. I just know that in the event that "shit hit the fan" to use the prepper terminology, I'd prefer to be the guy with a case of antibiotics and painkillers stashed in the basement than the guy hoping I can get treatment at a hospital or local medic.
      - maxerickson 11y ago
        I'm not sure what the current status is, but it used to be that you could just go to a pet store and buy antibiotics intended for animal use (but hey, same drug). This is practically a prepper trope though.
- lmm 11y ago
  > buying a farm is a huge huge risk tho, isn't it? in a scenario where society truly collapse, at least, it makes you a prime target. Not really - you can always walk away, so at worst you're no worse off than you were without it.
  - LoSboccacc 11y ago
    but you would basically have wasted all the resources spent to purchase the farm pre-apocalypse
    - lmm 11y ago
      Sure, but if you instead spend them on something "normal" like videogames you've probably also wasted them in an apocalypse scenario.
      - dalke 11y ago
        Sure, but the apocalypse scenario - and there have been uncountable apocalypse scenarios even in my lifetime, starting with 'The Jupiter Effect' - is also very unlikely to happen. Buying farmland you never use or enjoy, and which brings in no rent profit, is a waste if there is no apocalypse. While playing videogames brings a lot of enjoyment. The premise of this piece is to be "rational". To do that you need some idea of the odds. If you think another Tunguska event is something to prepare for, then having a farm is probably no better than playing video games - I can't even guess which would be safer from a random 10+MT event, and playing games is more fun and safer than doing the extra drive back and forth to the farm or operating the farm.
- ice303 11y ago
  <...> emerge with some useful skill <...> : Learn to make moonshine or any other type of distilled beverage. I really believe that it would be a great trading coin in a apocalypse scenario.

by f- 11y ago

LoSboccacc 11y ago

buying a farm is a huge huge risk tho, isn't it? in a scenario where society truly collapse, at least, it makes you a prime target. I'd like the other approach more: secret stash, going dark for a year, wait for tribes to stabilize the territory they control, emerge with some useful skill and bargain access/protection of a well armed/established tribe.

maxerickson 11y ago
You could barter out access to land in exchange for mutual defense. Any sort of real collapse is going to be accompanied by a lack of diesel and there aren't a whole lot of draft animals around, so farming is probably going to involve quite a lot of human labor.
- dkersten 11y ago
  If I were to prepare for an apocalypse scenario, I would hoard bottled water, canned food, ammunition, and fuel. Roughly prioritised in that order. Possibly also batteries. I feel like these are the things that will become scarce and valuable. Or at least help survival (food/water + ammunition). This makes them useful to me and also useful for bartering. Of course, my stash needs to be safe both from the apocalypse scenario itself (will it still be in usable condition after a nuclear explosion, for example?) and from other survivors. It also needs to be somewhere I can actually get to it (safely). This, coupled with the fact that I would need large enough quantities of these items makes it rather difficult. But, regardless, that is my I haven't done anything about it and likely never will plan to survive the apocalypse.
  - maxerickson 11y ago
    Once you start talking about weeks, drinking water is easy. A relatively clean source, a big pot and a fire are all you need. It's also easier to move around an empty several gallon pot (or just break into a house and grab one) than it is to move around hundreds of gallons of water (a short supply for several people). (re fire, if you build a stash, you really want there to be trees around, and pretty good annual precipitation)
  - soylentcola 11y ago
    Also basic medicine/medical supplies. It's a staple plotline in apocalyptic fiction but it seems legit for any natural disaster or major civil unrest as well. Whether you're stuck out in a remote location for safety or in the middle of the aftermath of a natural disaster, having a good first aid kit and a supply of medication could save the life of you or someone else in need. The only bit that seems difficult (but again, this is from apocalyptic fiction so grain of salt) is that so many important medications like insulin, antibiotics, and strong painkillers can't just be purchased at generic wholesale and kept for use or trade in major emergencies or times of real hardship. In the stories it's always the pharmacies that get looted first and there's always some chapter or episode where a family member or friend is sick/injured and the characters desperately need to find antibiotics or insulin or the like. I understand that this is a bit silly going from fiction but those stories are appealing because they get you to think about how you would deal with life-threatening challenges. In a way it's odd that we have all of these important and effective medicines but whether the emergency services and doctors are blown to smithereens, bitten by zombies, or just overwhelmed with patients after an epic earthquake/flood/eruption there's really no way to access them without looting or black market. I just know that in the event that "shit hit the fan" to use the prepper terminology, I'd prefer to be the guy with a case of antibiotics and painkillers stashed in the basement than the guy hoping I can get treatment at a hospital or local medic.
    - maxerickson 11y ago
      I'm not sure what the current status is, but it used to be that you could just go to a pet store and buy antibiotics intended for animal use (but hey, same drug). This is practically a prepper trope though.
lmm 11y ago
> buying a farm is a huge huge risk tho, isn't it? in a scenario where society truly collapse, at least, it makes you a prime target. Not really - you can always walk away, so at worst you're no worse off than you were without it.
- LoSboccacc 11y ago
  but you would basically have wasted all the resources spent to purchase the farm pre-apocalypse
  - lmm 11y ago
    Sure, but if you instead spend them on something "normal" like videogames you've probably also wasted them in an apocalypse scenario.
    - dalke 11y ago
      Sure, but the apocalypse scenario - and there have been uncountable apocalypse scenarios even in my lifetime, starting with 'The Jupiter Effect' - is also very unlikely to happen. Buying farmland you never use or enjoy, and which brings in no rent profit, is a waste if there is no apocalypse. While playing videogames brings a lot of enjoyment. The premise of this piece is to be "rational". To do that you need some idea of the odds. If you think another Tunguska event is something to prepare for, then having a farm is probably no better than playing video games - I can't even guess which would be safer from a random 10+MT event, and playing games is more fun and safer than doing the extra drive back and forth to the farm or operating the farm.
ice303 11y ago
<...> emerge with some useful skill <...> : Learn to make moonshine or any other type of distilled beverage. I really believe that it would be a great trading coin in a apocalypse scenario.