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That would disproportionately penalize poor people. Imagine gas prices suddenly spike due to a new gas tax, poor people who can barely afford a used 2001 Toyota

by outlace 11y ago

That would disproportionately penalize poor people. Imagine gas prices suddenly spike due to a new gas tax, poor people who can barely afford a used 2001 Toyota Camry are now even worse off, while your typical doctor or software engineer just goes out and buys a fancy new hybrid or electric car. Sure it may eventually change market conditions to favor electric vehicles, but it will be a long time before there are cheap, used electric vehicles for poor people to buy.

mgbmtl 11y ago
Many cities have local gas taxes that are used to subsidize public transport. In Quebec for example, there is a tax applied only in Montreal (where the public transport system is almost usable, compared to other North American cities), so gas is always 5-10¢/L more expensive in the city. So people living in poorer rural areas aren't affected. Other upside: a lot of gas stations have closed, converted to apartment/condo buildings, which helps to revitalize parts of the city. Downside: I don't feel like the provincial government has been investing at all in public transport. On the contrary, they're investing in more unsustainable highways to make suburbans happy. 1960s nostalgia.
- vlehto 11y ago
  In Finland they have envisioned somekind of transmitters to all cars that would signal if the car passes certain border close to Helsinki. This passing would cause 20 cent traffic payment to be billed from that driver. Costs of the system millions, goal is to bring down congestion. (As if people would want to sit in traffic.) You Canadians are freaking smart.
  - executesorder66 11y ago
    In South Africa our government built a system like that on most of the highways around Johannesburg. (One of our main cities) Everyone got pissed off, and refuse to pay, but still drive on the highway anyway. Result: still the same amount of traffic, and now the government is sitting with billions of Rands worth of new debt.
alkonaut 11y ago
> who can barely afford a used 2001 Toyota Camry If you are poor, why would you be driving a guzzler like that? Aren't most used US Camrys V6es or at least 2.2-2.4L? I realize if you are poor you might not have much choice, but if I was poor I'd at least aim for an 1.4-1.6L car, even for a full sized model. If more people made that decision, it would drive up demand and second hand for those cars, meaning it would be more attractive for new car buyers to go for them. For years now it's been the case that manufacturers launch 10 engines in some markets, but in the US they launch with a single guzzler engine option doing 25 mpg or even less.
erikpukinskis 11y ago
> That would disproportionately penalize poor people. Sadly so will climate change. The poor will be fucked no matter what. That said, you could probably mitigate the issue somewhat by providing tax credits for gas for low income people. Generally proponents of the carbon tax want it to be revenue neutral, which means we have an opportunity to return the money to the people in a fair way.

by outlace 11y ago

mgbmtl 11y ago

Many cities have local gas taxes that are used to subsidize public transport. In Quebec for example, there is a tax applied only in Montreal (where the public transport system is almost usable, compared to other North American cities), so gas is always 5-10¢/L more expensive in the city. So people living in poorer rural areas aren't affected. Other upside: a lot of gas stations have closed, converted to apartment/condo buildings, which helps to revitalize parts of the city. Downside: I don't feel like the provincial government has been investing at all in public transport. On the contrary, they're investing in more unsustainable highways to make suburbans happy. 1960s nostalgia.

vlehto 11y ago
In Finland they have envisioned somekind of transmitters to all cars that would signal if the car passes certain border close to Helsinki. This passing would cause 20 cent traffic payment to be billed from that driver. Costs of the system millions, goal is to bring down congestion. (As if people would want to sit in traffic.) You Canadians are freaking smart.
- executesorder66 11y ago
  In South Africa our government built a system like that on most of the highways around Johannesburg. (One of our main cities) Everyone got pissed off, and refuse to pay, but still drive on the highway anyway. Result: still the same amount of traffic, and now the government is sitting with billions of Rands worth of new debt.

alkonaut 11y ago

> who can barely afford a used 2001 Toyota Camry If you are poor, why would you be driving a guzzler like that? Aren't most used US Camrys V6es or at least 2.2-2.4L? I realize if you are poor you might not have much choice, but if I was poor I'd at least aim for an 1.4-1.6L car, even for a full sized model. If more people made that decision, it would drive up demand and second hand for those cars, meaning it would be more attractive for new car buyers to go for them. For years now it's been the case that manufacturers launch 10 engines in some markets, but in the US they launch with a single guzzler engine option doing 25 mpg or even less.

erikpukinskis 11y ago

> That would disproportionately penalize poor people. Sadly so will climate change. The poor will be fucked no matter what. That said, you could probably mitigate the issue somewhat by providing tax credits for gas for low income people. Generally proponents of the carbon tax want it to be revenue neutral, which means we have an opportunity to return the money to the people in a fair way.