5 ms·

Four Open Letters To The Book Industry

46 points by dmytton 17y ago

lionhearted 17y ago
Patrick, I love you mate. And I'm with you by the way. Kindle is changing the way I read. I'm not sure if I like it or not - I'm jumping around a lot more, because I don't have to worry about finishing a book to take off the large stack of books I'm traveling with. So I'm reading a little history, a little philosophy, a little fiction, and so on. Anyways, while we're on the topic, may I recommend Gutenberg.org if you haven't already thoroughly perused it? Here's a few you might like. Their top 100: http://www.gutenberg.org/browse/scores/top http://www.gutenberg.org/browse/scores/top History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire: http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/731 http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/731 Japanese literature including Genji Monogatari: http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/19264 http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/19264 Complete Sherlock Holmes: http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/1661 http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/1661 On War: http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/1946 http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/1946 All of Shakespeare: http://www.gutenberg.org/browse/authors/s#a65 http://www.gutenberg.org/browse/authors/s#a65 Thus Spake Zarathustra: http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/1998 http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/1998 Oh my, Gutenberg is just awesome. That's just the beginning of what I got. If you like literature, definitely try out Genji. If you haven't read On War, you simply must check it out - it teaches you how to think. At least read the first 20 pages, it's that valuable. Very incredible even if you don't care about history or military science, it's definitely been more valuable to me than Sun Tzu, and a lot of people like him. As for Nietzsche... he's an odd duck, isn't he? Anyway, check out Zarathustra, you'll either love it or hate or both. I find myself disagreeing with quite a lot of it, but then occasionally he explains himself so completely perfectly and explains reality so succinctly and accurately. The good parts of Zarathustra are like Individualism Crack, it's a huge high reading and getting excited at. There's lots more on Gutenberg, too! Almost everything out of print that's well known. I got 53 books from Gutenberg the day I got my Kindle so there's quite a lot I haven't gone through yet. Got copies of a lot of the foundational science texts to skim later for inspiration, etc. Really great stuff, highly recommend you spend some time on Gutenberg if you're the voracious reader.
patio11 17y ago
Fair warning: not my usual software marketing beat, at all. I saw all the Amazon/Macmillan flap today and wanted to chime in in more depth than a HN-friendly comment.
- daeken 17y ago
  100% on the same page with these letters. It frankly astounds me how out of touch the media companies are with their respective customer bases, and this Amazon v. publishers battle is just more evidence of that. Sadly, it shouldn't astound me that this is going on, since I've been it time and again. Maybe Publishers 2.0 will get this right...
heyitsnick 17y ago
And I thought the first letter was going to be an F.
ssp 17y ago
Amazon is behaving like Walmart here: squeezing suppliers in order to provide lower prices. Walmart is certainly not good for Walmart suppliers, because if you want to sell there, your profit margins will go down and down, and you will need higher and higher volume and lower and lower marginal costs. It's what Walmart does. The resulting type of product is generally known as junk. Is it good for consumers? Probably, because low prices are good, and if you don't want junk, you can go elsewhere. If the same thing eventually happens for books, then Amazon will be selling mostly cheap and trashy stuff, while other, more expensive, online bookstores will show up and get exclusive deals with better authors. In such a scenario, Patrick's comment: I will buy books from authors willing to sell them to me. I might get a little depressed over not being able to read my favorites, but if you haven’t noticed, I read a lot faster than you can possibly write and that makes me promiscuous by nature. strikes me as wrong. While you may substitute other good stuff for good stuff, you won't substitute The Duke's Boardroom Affair for Pride and Prejudice.
- yummyfajitas 17y ago
  Walmart sells junk because the marginal cost of junk physical goods is lower than the marginal cost of quality physical goods. In contrast, the marginal cost of an ebook is zero. The marginal cost of a paper book is independent of the quality of the book. A book makes money on volume (enough volume to cover fixed costs), not price. A junk book will simply not achieve enough volume to cover fixed costs, even in the Amazon marketplace.
- patio11 17y ago
  The resulting type of product is generally known as junk. I know I'm supposed to feel class disdain for poor people because their Chinese-factory-made T-shirts cost a fifth of what my name brand Chinese-factory-made T-shirts do, but my brain has never been good at mental gymnastics. It is even less good at them when I can do bitwise comparisons of the two products and be guaranteed of equality.
  - ssp 17y ago
    Note that I didn't say Walmart is bad. In fact I said: 'Is it good for consumers? Probably', and I mean that. I called their goods junk, just as I'm willing to call The Duke's Boardroom Affair junk, because that's how those products are seen, even by people who buy them. That doesn't imply any disdain for people who buy Chinese-factory-made T-shirts, or people who read romance novels. (If you consider the number of people who buy Chinese-factory-made T-shirts or read romance novels, you'd have to feel disdain for an extremely large percentage of people). The point is simply that what Amazon is doing could turn them into the Walmart of bookstores, for better or worse.
Tichy 17y ago
OK, I am not very deep into the Kindle vs publishers thing, but isn't it a bit dangerous to root for Amazon to build their monopoly? As an avid reader, I am not sure I want one company to be in control of "my drug". Not saying the publishers are necessarily the good guys (probably aren't). But this isn't about loving books, this is about market dominance and control. Not exacty the thing that inspires me to write a love letter to Amazon (though I usually buy from them and I like their service). Ultimately, do we really need Amazon for a proper ebooks distribution? It seems to me in theory every author could put their books on a web site right now, using whatever payment system he likes. The Kindle seems more like a Trojan horse to me - we let it into our lives, and then we can't get rid of it anymore, unless we are willing to let go of the 1000 books we bought, too. I, as a reader, don't want to be held hostage, neither by Amazon nor by book publishers.
- patio11 17y ago
  Personal anecdotes incoming: I live in a Japanese apartment. Like many Japanese folks, I read a lot and cannot possibly keep all the books I read here. Most go in the garbage when I'm done. I have no particular desire for ownership but, if I did, I own the bits on my Kindle in a much more durable fashion than I own the atoms in my trash bag right now. (Thirty volumes just got evicted.) It seems to me in theory every author could put their books on a web site right now, using whatever payment system he likes. This has been true in ten of the last ten years, and I have never bought a single book through it. The experience matters, and the Kindle is an amazingly better experience for me than reading on my screen is. (Amazon also beats the stuffings out of Google for book discovery, which is what I'd have to do to get to your website if you sold it directly. I can't very well Google [sci-fi I would enjoy], but Amazon will give me four titles fitting that bill on my front page. And they're pretty good at it, too -- Amazon probably has a better handle on my tastes than anybody except my siblings.)
  - Tichy 17y ago
    I have nothing against the Kindle or eBooks. But just because Amazon currently has the best reader doesn't mean I desire them to become a monopoly. Also, while OT, I have found Amazon pretty useless for discovering SciFi. Your argument seems to amount to "Amazon is so good, I'll never need anything else in my life". Maybe, maybe not (as I said, I tend to buy at Amazon, too - but lately I feel a bit uneasy about it).
michael_dorfman 17y ago
I just posted this to the comments of Patrick's blog I think you’re misreading the publishers, Patrick-- I haven’t seen any of them proposing "windowing", except as a retaliatory move against Amazon. Instead, the main point of disagreement is about the price-point, and your post provides support to the publisher’s position. Amazon is trying to set a universal $9.99 price point for e-books, similar to iTunes $.99 price point for songs. Macmillan, on the other hand, wants a sliding system with e-books starting out at $12-$15, and gradually dropping in price over time (similar to the current system, whereby the price drops as books move from Hardcover to Trade Paperback to Mass Market paperback to Remainders.)
- patio11 17y ago
  I think you’re misreading the publishers, Patrick-- I haven’t seen any of them proposing "windowing", except as a retaliatory move against Amazon You're incorrect. From the horse's mouth: This past Thursday I [John Sargent, from Macmilla]n met with Amazon in Seattle. I gave them our proposal for new terms of sale for e books under the agency model which will become effective in early March. In addition, I told them they could stay with their old terms of sale [i.e. the ones where Amazon acts as a wholesaler and can set prices], but that this would involve extensive and deep windowing of titles.
  - michael_dorfman 17y ago
    Look again, Patrick. The windowing only would apply to the "old terms of sale", where Amazon can arbitrarily set the prices. Macmillan wants new terms, with prices to be set according to a sliding scale. "Windowing" is being used as a threat here, to push Amazon to the new terms-- it's not what Macmillan wants. (Amazon in turn retaliated by opening the ultimate window-- delisting Macmillan altogether.)
dpapathanasiou 17y ago
I'm curious about your loyalty to Amazon: if there were another marketplace of ebooks for your Kindle, would you consider using it as well?
- pchristensen 17y ago
  He already describes himself as promiscuous to authors and publishers, so I doubt he would have any qualms about leaving Amazon for another company that beat the experience of a) finding, b) buying, and c) reading books.

46 points by dmytton 17y ago

Patrick, I love you mate. And I'm with you by the way. Kindle is changing the way I read. I'm not sure if I like it or not - I'm jumping around a lot more, because I don't have to worry about finishing a book to take off the large stack of books I'm traveling with. So I'm reading a little history, a little philosophy, a little fiction, and so on. Anyways, while we're on the topic, may I recommend Gutenberg.org if you haven't already thoroughly perused it? Here's a few you might like. Their top 100: http://www.gutenberg.org/browse/scores/top http://www.gutenberg.org/browse/scores/top History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire: http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/731 http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/731 Japanese literature including Genji Monogatari: http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/19264 http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/19264 Complete Sherlock Holmes: http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/1661 http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/1661 On War: http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/1946 http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/1946 All of Shakespeare: http://www.gutenberg.org/browse/authors/s#a65 http://www.gutenberg.org/browse/authors/s#a65 Thus Spake Zarathustra: http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/1998 http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/1998 Oh my, Gutenberg is just awesome. That's just the beginning of what I got. If you like literature, definitely try out Genji. If you haven't read On War, you simply must check it out - it teaches you how to think. At least read the first 20 pages, it's that valuable. Very incredible even if you don't care about history or military science, it's definitely been more valuable to me than Sun Tzu, and a lot of people like him. As for Nietzsche... he's an odd duck, isn't he? Anyway, check out Zarathustra, you'll either love it or hate or both. I find myself disagreeing with quite a lot of it, but then occasionally he explains himself so completely perfectly and explains reality so succinctly and accurately. The good parts of Zarathustra are like Individualism Crack, it's a huge high reading and getting excited at. There's lots more on Gutenberg, too! Almost everything out of print that's well known. I got 53 books from Gutenberg the day I got my Kindle so there's quite a lot I haven't gone through yet. Got copies of a lot of the foundational science texts to skim later for inspiration, etc. Really great stuff, highly recommend you spend some time on Gutenberg if you're the voracious reader.

patio11 17y ago

Fair warning: not my usual software marketing beat, at all. I saw all the Amazon/Macmillan flap today and wanted to chime in in more depth than a HN-friendly comment.

daeken 17y ago
100% on the same page with these letters. It frankly astounds me how out of touch the media companies are with their respective customer bases, and this Amazon v. publishers battle is just more evidence of that. Sadly, it shouldn't astound me that this is going on, since I've been it time and again. Maybe Publishers 2.0 will get this right...

heyitsnick 17y ago

And I thought the first letter was going to be an F.

ssp 17y ago

Amazon is behaving like Walmart here: squeezing suppliers in order to provide lower prices. Walmart is certainly not good for Walmart suppliers, because if you want to sell there, your profit margins will go down and down, and you will need higher and higher volume and lower and lower marginal costs. It's what Walmart does. The resulting type of product is generally known as junk. Is it good for consumers? Probably, because low prices are good, and if you don't want junk, you can go elsewhere. If the same thing eventually happens for books, then Amazon will be selling mostly cheap and trashy stuff, while other, more expensive, online bookstores will show up and get exclusive deals with better authors. In such a scenario, Patrick's comment: I will buy books from authors willing to sell them to me. I might get a little depressed over not being able to read my favorites, but if you haven’t noticed, I read a lot faster than you can possibly write and that makes me promiscuous by nature. strikes me as wrong. While you may substitute other good stuff for good stuff, you won't substitute The Duke's Boardroom Affair for Pride and Prejudice.

yummyfajitas 17y ago
Walmart sells junk because the marginal cost of junk physical goods is lower than the marginal cost of quality physical goods. In contrast, the marginal cost of an ebook is zero. The marginal cost of a paper book is independent of the quality of the book. A book makes money on volume (enough volume to cover fixed costs), not price. A junk book will simply not achieve enough volume to cover fixed costs, even in the Amazon marketplace.
patio11 17y ago
The resulting type of product is generally known as junk. I know I'm supposed to feel class disdain for poor people because their Chinese-factory-made T-shirts cost a fifth of what my name brand Chinese-factory-made T-shirts do, but my brain has never been good at mental gymnastics. It is even less good at them when I can do bitwise comparisons of the two products and be guaranteed of equality.
- ssp 17y ago
  Note that I didn't say Walmart is bad. In fact I said: 'Is it good for consumers? Probably', and I mean that. I called their goods junk, just as I'm willing to call The Duke's Boardroom Affair junk, because that's how those products are seen, even by people who buy them. That doesn't imply any disdain for people who buy Chinese-factory-made T-shirts, or people who read romance novels. (If you consider the number of people who buy Chinese-factory-made T-shirts or read romance novels, you'd have to feel disdain for an extremely large percentage of people). The point is simply that what Amazon is doing could turn them into the Walmart of bookstores, for better or worse.

Tichy 17y ago

OK, I am not very deep into the Kindle vs publishers thing, but isn't it a bit dangerous to root for Amazon to build their monopoly? As an avid reader, I am not sure I want one company to be in control of "my drug". Not saying the publishers are necessarily the good guys (probably aren't). But this isn't about loving books, this is about market dominance and control. Not exacty the thing that inspires me to write a love letter to Amazon (though I usually buy from them and I like their service). Ultimately, do we really need Amazon for a proper ebooks distribution? It seems to me in theory every author could put their books on a web site right now, using whatever payment system he likes. The Kindle seems more like a Trojan horse to me - we let it into our lives, and then we can't get rid of it anymore, unless we are willing to let go of the 1000 books we bought, too. I, as a reader, don't want to be held hostage, neither by Amazon nor by book publishers.

patio11 17y ago
Personal anecdotes incoming: I live in a Japanese apartment. Like many Japanese folks, I read a lot and cannot possibly keep all the books I read here. Most go in the garbage when I'm done. I have no particular desire for ownership but, if I did, I own the bits on my Kindle in a much more durable fashion than I own the atoms in my trash bag right now. (Thirty volumes just got evicted.) It seems to me in theory every author could put their books on a web site right now, using whatever payment system he likes. This has been true in ten of the last ten years, and I have never bought a single book through it. The experience matters, and the Kindle is an amazingly better experience for me than reading on my screen is. (Amazon also beats the stuffings out of Google for book discovery, which is what I'd have to do to get to your website if you sold it directly. I can't very well Google [sci-fi I would enjoy], but Amazon will give me four titles fitting that bill on my front page. And they're pretty good at it, too -- Amazon probably has a better handle on my tastes than anybody except my siblings.)
- Tichy 17y ago
  I have nothing against the Kindle or eBooks. But just because Amazon currently has the best reader doesn't mean I desire them to become a monopoly. Also, while OT, I have found Amazon pretty useless for discovering SciFi. Your argument seems to amount to "Amazon is so good, I'll never need anything else in my life". Maybe, maybe not (as I said, I tend to buy at Amazon, too - but lately I feel a bit uneasy about it).

michael_dorfman 17y ago

I just posted this to the comments of Patrick's blog I think you’re misreading the publishers, Patrick-- I haven’t seen any of them proposing "windowing", except as a retaliatory move against Amazon. Instead, the main point of disagreement is about the price-point, and your post provides support to the publisher’s position. Amazon is trying to set a universal $9.99 price point for e-books, similar to iTunes $.99 price point for songs. Macmillan, on the other hand, wants a sliding system with e-books starting out at $12-$15, and gradually dropping in price over time (similar to the current system, whereby the price drops as books move from Hardcover to Trade Paperback to Mass Market paperback to Remainders.)

patio11 17y ago
I think you’re misreading the publishers, Patrick-- I haven’t seen any of them proposing "windowing", except as a retaliatory move against Amazon You're incorrect. From the horse's mouth: This past Thursday I [John Sargent, from Macmilla]n met with Amazon in Seattle. I gave them our proposal for new terms of sale for e books under the agency model which will become effective in early March. In addition, I told them they could stay with their old terms of sale [i.e. the ones where Amazon acts as a wholesaler and can set prices], but that this would involve extensive and deep windowing of titles.
- michael_dorfman 17y ago
  Look again, Patrick. The windowing only would apply to the "old terms of sale", where Amazon can arbitrarily set the prices. Macmillan wants new terms, with prices to be set according to a sliding scale. "Windowing" is being used as a threat here, to push Amazon to the new terms-- it's not what Macmillan wants. (Amazon in turn retaliated by opening the ultimate window-- delisting Macmillan altogether.)

dpapathanasiou 17y ago

I'm curious about your loyalty to Amazon: if there were another marketplace of ebooks for your Kindle, would you consider using it as well?

pchristensen 17y ago
He already describes himself as promiscuous to authors and publishers, so I doubt he would have any qualms about leaving Amazon for another company that beat the experience of a) finding, b) buying, and c) reading books.