4 ms·

It still seems like a pretty big deal outside the high end of the market. If you don't own your own home with a garage (which I think is the majority of America

by chc 11y ago

It still seems like a pretty big deal outside the high end of the market. If you don't own your own home with a garage (which I think is the majority of Americans), how the heck are you meant to plug them in?

cowmix 11y ago
Free supercharging.
vvanders 11y ago
Chargers work outside, I fully expect to see charging infrastructure built out for: -Work parking(Leeds cert already has started this) -Apartments(upscale working to downscale probably) -Exterior parking. Even if you don't have a garage there's no reason you can't still plugin where you park at home(or at work) since most chargers are all weather. There's also a huge incentive to built charging infra at shopping areas as you've got a captive audience(for 20-30 mins). There was a leaked slide deck a while back from some of the SuperCharger contractors showing businesses in the area where SCs installed seeing at 50% boost in revenue.
- chc 11y ago
  Are you thinking of affordable charging, or the commercial chargers that are springing up in parking lots all over the place that cost like $4 an hour? Because I don't see how the latter solves the problem for people who are not rich, but it seems to be the only solution anyone has to offer right now. I'm not saying I think the problem is intractable, just that I think fueling is still a big problem with EVs for most people.
  - mikeash 11y ago
    It's a problem which will go away as popularity grows. If you have your own garage then you're all set now, obviously. If you park in a shared garage, it's pretty simple to install a charger there. Garages still have electricity. It could be dedicated for you, or shared with metering. Either way, it's pretty straightforward. What can be hard, depending on who you're dealing with, is convincing the garage owner to let you do this. As EVs become more common, catering to their owners will become more desirable. It's one thing to block installing chargers when one tenant wants one, and quite another when 10% of your tenants want them. The same story plays out with street parking. In terms of infrastructure it's no big deal, and the main obstacle is political. As EVs become more common, that will go away.
    - vvanders 11y ago
      Good news is Oregon(and some other states soon) has laws that your HoA cannot legally prevent you from installing a charger(although at your own cost).
  - knicholes 11y ago
    The Adobe building in Lehi, UT provides 12 free EV chargers. (It's not just for Adobe employees, either). Anyone is free to come and use the chargers.
  - vvanders 11y ago
    $4hr? Ouch. Here almost all of them are metered at 0.24c / kWh(even for chademo) which is about 4x actual electricity rates but much better than that.
    - ejolto 11y ago
      Less than a fourth of a cent per kWh? So 4 kWh costs less than a cent? Where do you live?
alkonaut 11y ago
Car parks in the future (in front of apartment complexes, office complexes, shopping malls) will simply have power outlets. This is already natural in cold climates where you can't leave your car at work or outside the apartment without plugging in your engine heater. I'd guess it's common in Alaska or parts of Canada (it is in e.g. North Scandinavia). It's not very expensive infrastructure.
- fulafel 11y ago
  Yep, in places with snowy winters this is old hat. All outdoor parking spaces associated with housing have electric sockets for block heaters and interior heaters. They are sized to accomodate everyone's heater timer turning on ~simultaneously every morning, I guess on the order of 1 kW per car. (Indoor heaters are higher power than engine block heaters, but not everyone uses them).
Htsthbjig 11y ago
Next time it goes dark in the night, look at the streets light in your city. Whenever you live, if you live in America, Europe or Asia, there is already a big electrical infrastructure installed. This lighting infrastructure goes unused by day or by night by using more efficient lights(LEDs) that need much less energy and could be controlled much better than old technology. I have an EV so I had to power the office parking of my company. It took a day. Extremely easy.
erikpukinskis 11y ago
> If you don't own your own home with a garage (which I think is the majority of Americans) I'm not sure why ownership matters... Renting a home with a garage works just as well. I'm also kind of curious why you think a majority of Americans don't have off-street parking? In suburban and rural areas it's standard to have a garage or at least a permanent parking spot. To me it seems like only in the very densest cities that people have to use street parking. And even in the city there are plenty of apartments/condos with dedicated parking. What kind of neighborhood is representative of what you're imagining? Maybe I'm just not picturing it right.
- chc 11y ago
  Sorry, you're right — poor phrasing on my part. I just meant "have." I meant apartments and condos, where you usually have to park in a parking lot. Parking lots usually don't have outlets for you to plug into, much less the 240v ones that can charge a Model S in less than a week.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

by chc 11y ago

cowmix 11y ago

Free supercharging.

vvanders 11y ago

Chargers work outside, I fully expect to see charging infrastructure built out for: -Work parking(Leeds cert already has started this) -Apartments(upscale working to downscale probably) -Exterior parking. Even if you don't have a garage there's no reason you can't still plugin where you park at home(or at work) since most chargers are all weather. There's also a huge incentive to built charging infra at shopping areas as you've got a captive audience(for 20-30 mins). There was a leaked slide deck a while back from some of the SuperCharger contractors showing businesses in the area where SCs installed seeing at 50% boost in revenue.

chc 11y ago
Are you thinking of affordable charging, or the commercial chargers that are springing up in parking lots all over the place that cost like $4 an hour? Because I don't see how the latter solves the problem for people who are not rich, but it seems to be the only solution anyone has to offer right now. I'm not saying I think the problem is intractable, just that I think fueling is still a big problem with EVs for most people.
- mikeash 11y ago
  It's a problem which will go away as popularity grows. If you have your own garage then you're all set now, obviously. If you park in a shared garage, it's pretty simple to install a charger there. Garages still have electricity. It could be dedicated for you, or shared with metering. Either way, it's pretty straightforward. What can be hard, depending on who you're dealing with, is convincing the garage owner to let you do this. As EVs become more common, catering to their owners will become more desirable. It's one thing to block installing chargers when one tenant wants one, and quite another when 10% of your tenants want them. The same story plays out with street parking. In terms of infrastructure it's no big deal, and the main obstacle is political. As EVs become more common, that will go away.
  - vvanders 11y ago
    Good news is Oregon(and some other states soon) has laws that your HoA cannot legally prevent you from installing a charger(although at your own cost).
- knicholes 11y ago
  The Adobe building in Lehi, UT provides 12 free EV chargers. (It's not just for Adobe employees, either). Anyone is free to come and use the chargers.
- vvanders 11y ago
  $4hr? Ouch. Here almost all of them are metered at 0.24c / kWh(even for chademo) which is about 4x actual electricity rates but much better than that.
  - ejolto 11y ago
    Less than a fourth of a cent per kWh? So 4 kWh costs less than a cent? Where do you live?

alkonaut 11y ago

Car parks in the future (in front of apartment complexes, office complexes, shopping malls) will simply have power outlets. This is already natural in cold climates where you can't leave your car at work or outside the apartment without plugging in your engine heater. I'd guess it's common in Alaska or parts of Canada (it is in e.g. North Scandinavia). It's not very expensive infrastructure.

fulafel 11y ago
Yep, in places with snowy winters this is old hat. All outdoor parking spaces associated with housing have electric sockets for block heaters and interior heaters. They are sized to accomodate everyone's heater timer turning on ~simultaneously every morning, I guess on the order of 1 kW per car. (Indoor heaters are higher power than engine block heaters, but not everyone uses them).

Htsthbjig 11y ago

Next time it goes dark in the night, look at the streets light in your city. Whenever you live, if you live in America, Europe or Asia, there is already a big electrical infrastructure installed. This lighting infrastructure goes unused by day or by night by using more efficient lights(LEDs) that need much less energy and could be controlled much better than old technology. I have an EV so I had to power the office parking of my company. It took a day. Extremely easy.

erikpukinskis 11y ago

> If you don't own your own home with a garage (which I think is the majority of Americans) I'm not sure why ownership matters... Renting a home with a garage works just as well. I'm also kind of curious why you think a majority of Americans don't have off-street parking? In suburban and rural areas it's standard to have a garage or at least a permanent parking spot. To me it seems like only in the very densest cities that people have to use street parking. And even in the city there are plenty of apartments/condos with dedicated parking. What kind of neighborhood is representative of what you're imagining? Maybe I'm just not picturing it right.

chc 11y ago
Sorry, you're right — poor phrasing on my part. I just meant "have." I meant apartments and condos, where you usually have to park in a parking lot. Parking lots usually don't have outlets for you to plug into, much less the 240v ones that can charge a Model S in less than a week.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]