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https://www.aei.org/publication/acceptance-rates-us-medical-schools-2014-reveal-ongoing-racial-profiling-affirmative-discrimination-blacks-hispanics/ https://ww

by itg 11y ago

https://www.aei.org/publication/acceptance-rates-us-medical-schools-2014-reveal-ongoing-racial-profiling-affirmative-discrimination-blacks-hispanics/ https://www.aei.org/publication/acceptance-rates-us-medical-... There you go

danharaj 11y ago
Good on you for supplying a citation. I might analyze it later if I have nothing better to do tonight than figure out how someone from AEI is deliberately being misleading about a study yet again.
- vanattab 11y ago
  Really you demand a citation and then it's given you dismiss immediately while also admitting you won't even bother reading it because it doesn't support your view. Why did you even ask?
  - danharaj 11y ago
    No, that's not why I won't bother reading. I won't bother reading it because I've found AEI to be garbage before and I have a finite supply of energy and time to verify claims which I thus prioritize based on my perceived quality of the source. To take it to an extreme, I don't bother verifying claims made by neonazis. AEI is obviously not that bad, but it's also not good enough for me to care. What kind of amateur mistakes can AEI make? Well for one, I bet this analysis of the data falls victim to Simpson's paradox. Basic shit like that happens all the time in their analyses.
    - vanattab 11y ago
      Surely if happens all the time you can give us some links to the offending articles and explain how they fall victim to Simpsons pardox or other logical errors... I promise to actually read them.
- wdmeldon 11y ago
  Here are the actual statistics https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/157998/factstablea24.html https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/157998/... This isn't a false claim.
  - kenjackson 11y ago
    But the data isn't broken down into schools. There is probably (although I don't know for sure), a difference in accept rate between a tier-1 vs bottom-tier medical school. They should control for that too. At least I didn't see that in the data.
  - danharaj 11y ago
    There's lies, damned lies, and statistics. Without knowing the breakdown by school, the result can easily be the result of an effect like Simpson's paradox[1]. The AEI source even acknowledges that Simpson's paradox prevents one from drawing conclusions (also please note the rhetorical quotation marks): > The AAMC doesn’t provide acceptance data by individual medical school, so we can’t conclude that any of the four medical schools at public universities in Michigan (University of Michigan, Michigan State, Wayne State and Oakland University) are practicing illegal “affirmative discrimination” or “racial profiling” in admissions But quickly pivots, pretending like this doesn't matter: > "Based on national data, is there any conclusion other than the obvious one – that US medical schools are granting special preferences for admissions on the basis of race for certain preferred minority groups (blacks and Hispanics) over other non-preferred minority groups (Asians) and whites" Yes. Simpson's paradox. The data is consistent with schools being discriminatory in favor of whites if white people tend to apply only to selective schools, for example. This is why I don't bother with the playschool polemical bullshit that comes out of AEI. They ignore basic facts about statistical inference in order to push their views. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simpson%27s_paradox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simpson%27s_paradox P.S. Looks like I got roped into reading their blog post anyway. I guess my plan to save my time and patience failed.
    - remarkEon 11y ago
      -> There's lies, damned lies, and statistics. That's probably one of the worst sentences that's ever been uttered in the english language, because it lets you dismiss an argument by assuming that because it involves math it must be manipulated and therefore bullshit.

by itg 11y ago

danharaj 11y ago

Good on you for supplying a citation. I might analyze it later if I have nothing better to do tonight than figure out how someone from AEI is deliberately being misleading about a study yet again.

vanattab 11y ago
Really you demand a citation and then it's given you dismiss immediately while also admitting you won't even bother reading it because it doesn't support your view. Why did you even ask?
- danharaj 11y ago
  No, that's not why I won't bother reading. I won't bother reading it because I've found AEI to be garbage before and I have a finite supply of energy and time to verify claims which I thus prioritize based on my perceived quality of the source. To take it to an extreme, I don't bother verifying claims made by neonazis. AEI is obviously not that bad, but it's also not good enough for me to care. What kind of amateur mistakes can AEI make? Well for one, I bet this analysis of the data falls victim to Simpson's paradox. Basic shit like that happens all the time in their analyses.
  - vanattab 11y ago
    Surely if happens all the time you can give us some links to the offending articles and explain how they fall victim to Simpsons pardox or other logical errors... I promise to actually read them.
wdmeldon 11y ago
Here are the actual statistics https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/157998/factstablea24.html https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/157998/... This isn't a false claim.
- kenjackson 11y ago
  But the data isn't broken down into schools. There is probably (although I don't know for sure), a difference in accept rate between a tier-1 vs bottom-tier medical school. They should control for that too. At least I didn't see that in the data.
- danharaj 11y ago
  There's lies, damned lies, and statistics. Without knowing the breakdown by school, the result can easily be the result of an effect like Simpson's paradox[1]. The AEI source even acknowledges that Simpson's paradox prevents one from drawing conclusions (also please note the rhetorical quotation marks): > The AAMC doesn’t provide acceptance data by individual medical school, so we can’t conclude that any of the four medical schools at public universities in Michigan (University of Michigan, Michigan State, Wayne State and Oakland University) are practicing illegal “affirmative discrimination” or “racial profiling” in admissions But quickly pivots, pretending like this doesn't matter: > "Based on national data, is there any conclusion other than the obvious one – that US medical schools are granting special preferences for admissions on the basis of race for certain preferred minority groups (blacks and Hispanics) over other non-preferred minority groups (Asians) and whites" Yes. Simpson's paradox. The data is consistent with schools being discriminatory in favor of whites if white people tend to apply only to selective schools, for example. This is why I don't bother with the playschool polemical bullshit that comes out of AEI. They ignore basic facts about statistical inference in order to push their views. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simpson%27s_paradox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simpson%27s_paradox P.S. Looks like I got roped into reading their blog post anyway. I guess my plan to save my time and patience failed.
  - remarkEon 11y ago
    -> There's lies, damned lies, and statistics. That's probably one of the worst sentences that's ever been uttered in the english language, because it lets you dismiss an argument by assuming that because it involves math it must be manipulated and therefore bullshit.