3 ms·

To the contrary, I understand it perfectly, I just don't agree with it. There are plenty of people who think that think gay people shouldn't be allowed to be m

by bmelton 11y ago

To the contrary, I understand it perfectly, I just don't agree with it. There are plenty of people who think that think gay people shouldn't be allowed to be married. I understand that too, and also disagree. Just because a lot of people think something doesn't make it right. It took real people time, money and effort to make the shows that others are pirating, and to my mind at least, their efforts entitle them more to it than my "need" to watch it entitles me to pirate it.

mercer 11y ago
> but it boggles my mind how comfortable everybody seems able to justify it. > To the contrary, I understand it perfectly, I just don't agree with it. I don't really understand how it can 'boggle your mind' while you still understand it. Mind-boggling implies that it's surprising to you, which it shouldn't be. Don't get me wrong, while I do not entirely agree with your point of view, I understand it. But to describe it as mind-boggling would be both inconsistent and perhaps a bit condescending. It seems to me that it would be better to express understanding and then explain why you disagree, rather they to pretend 'being startled'.
- bmelton 11y ago
  Fair point. i made my earlier point poorly, as I didn't respond to your post in context (but rather as its own entity). In the same way that I understand the appeal of, say, scientology (e.g., You are a superior being, and with just a little help, we can make you far more successful, rich in pocket, body, spirit, blah blah), but it still boggles the mind that people fall for it. I understand the appeal to self-justify taking something from another that you want more. I understand the appeal of copying something you don't own, or can't buy, which doesn't physically "take" anything away from the owner. I understand those things just fine. What I don't understand is how low the lack of respect for your fellow man has to be that they can create something, not give it to you, and that isn't a deterrent from just taking it anyway. Even if I accept the argument that it doesn't take anything from the owner (which I don't), and that a given copy of data is nothing more than a secret a friend won't tell me, I still respect other people enough that I'm not going to dig through their things until their secrets are mine.
  - mercer 11y ago
    The thing is that it still strikes me as rather arrogant to compare pirating to something like scientology, or imply that it is 'respectless' to my fellow man. Even just based on this HN thread, there's probably a huge part of society that is 1) intelligent, 2) conscientious, and 3) does not consider pirating a big crime. I just need to look at myself and the vast majority of my friends to confirm this. I could defend my point of view by saying that I would simply not download certain things if there was no easy way to do so, but clearly we disagree on this issue. But arguing that it's 'simply' lack of respect for your fellow man and 'simply' taking does not do the issue justice. Either it is as simple as you say, and all of us who pirate are lesser creatures than yourself (which would be convenient to conclude), or it's not as simple as you say. I don't really see how there's a third option, and that's the problem I had with your comment.
    - bmelton 11y ago
      It was (probably a poor) analogy, not a comparison. I was simply trying to come up with something else that is both understandable to me, and yet still mind boggling. I was definitely not attempting to conflate the two. As for the rest, it's very possible that despite how much thought I've put into it, I'm completely wrong. Offtopic, but your focus on the word "simply" made me wonder if I'd said it. I hadn't, so I'm curious as to the focus on it. To me, if someone creates (or has) something unique, and doesn't want someone else to have it, then they should not. It doesn't matter to me whether it's freely available on the pirate bay, or locked up in their sock drawer; they created it, not me, and if they want me to have it, they'll either give it to me, or make it available to me to purchase. Anything else violates their wishes on their thing.
      - TillE 11y ago
        > To me, if someone creates (or has) something unique, and doesn't want someone else to have it, then they should not. This is an extraordinary amount of personalized respect to give faceless companies who are literally only acting as they do in order to extract the maximum amount of money from "content" they did not create.

by bmelton 11y ago

mercer 11y ago

> but it boggles my mind how comfortable everybody seems able to justify it. > To the contrary, I understand it perfectly, I just don't agree with it. I don't really understand how it can 'boggle your mind' while you still understand it. Mind-boggling implies that it's surprising to you, which it shouldn't be. Don't get me wrong, while I do not entirely agree with your point of view, I understand it. But to describe it as mind-boggling would be both inconsistent and perhaps a bit condescending. It seems to me that it would be better to express understanding and then explain why you disagree, rather they to pretend 'being startled'.

bmelton 11y ago
Fair point. i made my earlier point poorly, as I didn't respond to your post in context (but rather as its own entity). In the same way that I understand the appeal of, say, scientology (e.g., You are a superior being, and with just a little help, we can make you far more successful, rich in pocket, body, spirit, blah blah), but it still boggles the mind that people fall for it. I understand the appeal to self-justify taking something from another that you want more. I understand the appeal of copying something you don't own, or can't buy, which doesn't physically "take" anything away from the owner. I understand those things just fine. What I don't understand is how low the lack of respect for your fellow man has to be that they can create something, not give it to you, and that isn't a deterrent from just taking it anyway. Even if I accept the argument that it doesn't take anything from the owner (which I don't), and that a given copy of data is nothing more than a secret a friend won't tell me, I still respect other people enough that I'm not going to dig through their things until their secrets are mine.
- mercer 11y ago
  The thing is that it still strikes me as rather arrogant to compare pirating to something like scientology, or imply that it is 'respectless' to my fellow man. Even just based on this HN thread, there's probably a huge part of society that is 1) intelligent, 2) conscientious, and 3) does not consider pirating a big crime. I just need to look at myself and the vast majority of my friends to confirm this. I could defend my point of view by saying that I would simply not download certain things if there was no easy way to do so, but clearly we disagree on this issue. But arguing that it's 'simply' lack of respect for your fellow man and 'simply' taking does not do the issue justice. Either it is as simple as you say, and all of us who pirate are lesser creatures than yourself (which would be convenient to conclude), or it's not as simple as you say. I don't really see how there's a third option, and that's the problem I had with your comment.
  - bmelton 11y ago
    It was (probably a poor) analogy, not a comparison. I was simply trying to come up with something else that is both understandable to me, and yet still mind boggling. I was definitely not attempting to conflate the two. As for the rest, it's very possible that despite how much thought I've put into it, I'm completely wrong. Offtopic, but your focus on the word "simply" made me wonder if I'd said it. I hadn't, so I'm curious as to the focus on it. To me, if someone creates (or has) something unique, and doesn't want someone else to have it, then they should not. It doesn't matter to me whether it's freely available on the pirate bay, or locked up in their sock drawer; they created it, not me, and if they want me to have it, they'll either give it to me, or make it available to me to purchase. Anything else violates their wishes on their thing.
    - TillE 11y ago
      > To me, if someone creates (or has) something unique, and doesn't want someone else to have it, then they should not. This is an extraordinary amount of personalized respect to give faceless companies who are literally only acting as they do in order to extract the maximum amount of money from "content" they did not create.