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European here and on the look for a new car. Which exact brands haven't been affected? Hard to find actual info, there are a lot of probes to various companies

European here and on the look for a new car. Which exact brands haven't been affected? Hard to find actual info, there are a lot of probes to various companies, but which ones have been verified?

jeroen 11y ago
For now, only VW AG (so VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda and Porsche). BMW, Mercedes, Renault, Opel and PSA (Peugeot, Citroen) have been mentioned, but I haven't seen any confirmations.
- _pmf_ 11y ago
  Ford also uses PSA motors (for example the 1.6 L Diesel Duratorq engine [0]). [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Duratorq_engine#1.6_.22Tiger.22 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Duratorq_engine#1.6_.22Ti...
  - jeroen 11y ago
    And Mercedes uses Renault engines in some models. I have no idea which party will be responsible in those cases.
- vmarsy 11y ago
  So far I read PSA is not mentioned and they keep reaffirming they don't have a cheating device. we only know authorities investigated on renault closely but the relation to the cheating scandal isn't confirmed
fps 11y ago
If a manufacturer is claiming high gas mileage, reasonable power and low emissions out of a small turbo diesel, chances are they're lying. You can only have two of those three, and so if you buy a diesel car, you're at risk for having it fail inspections or at the very least lose it's resale value. I, personally, wouldn't buy a diesel at all until this whole thing sorts itself out. Ford, Toyota, Nissan and Honda make a variety of hybrid electric vehicles that get good mileage, have low emissions and put out reasonable amounts of power. Nissan makes the Leaf, which is a small, affordable electric vehicle with a useful range. GM is planning on releasing a new electric car called the Bolt later this year, although I'm unsure of it's european availability.
- TheCondor 11y ago
  Once one of them started gaming the tests and nobody reported it, it's not unreasonable to assume others started doing it too. There are real costs to complying. VW has been kicking everybody's tail in diesel too, so I'd expect one of two things after they all had a chance to reverse engineer tdi, they'd buy VW motors for their cars or they'd do the same tricks. It will be interesting to see unfold, it could very well end diesel in consumer cars which would be unfortunate as I think there are real values to the diesel cycle.
- ricw 11y ago
  That's a bit of an overly broad sweep against the car industry. Technically, those emission standards are achievable and many cars do achieve them without cheating or the like, including diesel cars. If you want to be sure to not be affected, buy either a petrol / gas or electric car. I'm pretty sure tesla will not be affected by this..
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
nextos 11y ago
Why not getting gasoline? Or even better, an EV? I test drove a Leaf and I was very impressed in all respects. And I drive a BMW. They are cheap with govt subsides. Roughly the same tech is used by Renault in its poorly marketed but awesome Zoe. They are both affordable, and quite more so 2nd hand. Small gasoline engines are very frugal. E.g., Fiat's fantastic TwinAir. I drove one during 36 months in Scandinavia and I got better mileage than many diesels. Due to turbo, some particles might be nasty though. Somewhere in between you have many hybrid cars. Small Lexus are not too expensive and they are very nice.
- blablablame 11y ago
  Problem at least in Portugal is a lot manufacturers aren't even offering gasoline vehicles. Lexus only offers the NX in hybrid form (which is great) but starts at 45k Euros. Other brands offer hybrids but only on higher models (BMW hybrid only available on the X5 not X3 or Audi only offering it on the Q7). (yes, I know, I could probably buy a small hybrid car, but we are looking for something with more space otherwise we would stick with our current one)
  - nextos 11y ago
    Leafs are quite spacious. I'd drop by a dealer and have a look at least. I was surprised, and I'm used to a 3 series station wagon. Otherwise you can hack the market a bit and perhaps buy it in Spain?
    - blablablame 11y ago
      Leaf has less trunk space (370L) than my Auris which with my family is already busting from the seams when we do some long trips. Buying in Spain is an hassle and legalisation is quite expensive.
ju-st 11y ago
Look at CNG cars, too!
- pjc50 11y ago
  I do wonder why CNG doesn't get more publicity, gas is currently cheap and it has better CO2 emissions.
  - mjevans 11y ago
    I think it has to do with the difficulty of refueling one quickly (and safely), high pressure gas fittings are just asking for trouble. Also, I was recently a passenger in one while my car was being serviced; it seems they must store a rather high volume tank /somewhere/ (the trunk space suffers).
Yaggo 11y ago
If an electric car is not an option for you, Toyota hybrids have pretty good track record. http://www.transportenvironment.org/publications/mind-gap-2015 http://www.transportenvironment.org/publications/mind-gap-20...

European here and on the look for a new car. Which exact brands haven't been affected? Hard to find actual info, there are a lot of probes to various companies, but which ones have been verified?

jeroen 11y ago

For now, only VW AG (so VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda and Porsche). BMW, Mercedes, Renault, Opel and PSA (Peugeot, Citroen) have been mentioned, but I haven't seen any confirmations.

_pmf_ 11y ago
Ford also uses PSA motors (for example the 1.6 L Diesel Duratorq engine [0]). [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Duratorq_engine#1.6_.22Tiger.22 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Duratorq_engine#1.6_.22Ti...
- jeroen 11y ago
  And Mercedes uses Renault engines in some models. I have no idea which party will be responsible in those cases.
vmarsy 11y ago
So far I read PSA is not mentioned and they keep reaffirming they don't have a cheating device. we only know authorities investigated on renault closely but the relation to the cheating scandal isn't confirmed

fps 11y ago

If a manufacturer is claiming high gas mileage, reasonable power and low emissions out of a small turbo diesel, chances are they're lying. You can only have two of those three, and so if you buy a diesel car, you're at risk for having it fail inspections or at the very least lose it's resale value. I, personally, wouldn't buy a diesel at all until this whole thing sorts itself out. Ford, Toyota, Nissan and Honda make a variety of hybrid electric vehicles that get good mileage, have low emissions and put out reasonable amounts of power. Nissan makes the Leaf, which is a small, affordable electric vehicle with a useful range. GM is planning on releasing a new electric car called the Bolt later this year, although I'm unsure of it's european availability.

TheCondor 11y ago
Once one of them started gaming the tests and nobody reported it, it's not unreasonable to assume others started doing it too. There are real costs to complying. VW has been kicking everybody's tail in diesel too, so I'd expect one of two things after they all had a chance to reverse engineer tdi, they'd buy VW motors for their cars or they'd do the same tricks. It will be interesting to see unfold, it could very well end diesel in consumer cars which would be unfortunate as I think there are real values to the diesel cycle.
ricw 11y ago
That's a bit of an overly broad sweep against the car industry. Technically, those emission standards are achievable and many cars do achieve them without cheating or the like, including diesel cars. If you want to be sure to not be affected, buy either a petrol / gas or electric car. I'm pretty sure tesla will not be affected by this..

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

nextos 11y ago

Why not getting gasoline? Or even better, an EV? I test drove a Leaf and I was very impressed in all respects. And I drive a BMW. They are cheap with govt subsides. Roughly the same tech is used by Renault in its poorly marketed but awesome Zoe. They are both affordable, and quite more so 2nd hand. Small gasoline engines are very frugal. E.g., Fiat's fantastic TwinAir. I drove one during 36 months in Scandinavia and I got better mileage than many diesels. Due to turbo, some particles might be nasty though. Somewhere in between you have many hybrid cars. Small Lexus are not too expensive and they are very nice.

blablablame 11y ago
Problem at least in Portugal is a lot manufacturers aren't even offering gasoline vehicles. Lexus only offers the NX in hybrid form (which is great) but starts at 45k Euros. Other brands offer hybrids but only on higher models (BMW hybrid only available on the X5 not X3 or Audi only offering it on the Q7). (yes, I know, I could probably buy a small hybrid car, but we are looking for something with more space otherwise we would stick with our current one)
- nextos 11y ago
  Leafs are quite spacious. I'd drop by a dealer and have a look at least. I was surprised, and I'm used to a 3 series station wagon. Otherwise you can hack the market a bit and perhaps buy it in Spain?
  - blablablame 11y ago
    Leaf has less trunk space (370L) than my Auris which with my family is already busting from the seams when we do some long trips. Buying in Spain is an hassle and legalisation is quite expensive.

ju-st 11y ago

Look at CNG cars, too!

pjc50 11y ago
I do wonder why CNG doesn't get more publicity, gas is currently cheap and it has better CO2 emissions.
- mjevans 11y ago
  I think it has to do with the difficulty of refueling one quickly (and safely), high pressure gas fittings are just asking for trouble. Also, I was recently a passenger in one while my car was being serviced; it seems they must store a rather high volume tank /somewhere/ (the trunk space suffers).

Yaggo 11y ago

If an electric car is not an option for you, Toyota hybrids have pretty good track record. http://www.transportenvironment.org/publications/mind-gap-2015 http://www.transportenvironment.org/publications/mind-gap-20...