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This is the heart of the problem. It's not 'the cloud', unnecessarily complex feature sets, or any of the other complaints being thrown around It's that the s

This is the heart of the problem. It's not 'the cloud', unnecessarily complex feature sets, or any of the other complaints being thrown around It's that the software was not thoroughly tested. Nest cut corners in R&D. Consumers are also at fault for not taking the time to understand the hack job Nest has done to trickle charge the device when no common wire is available. Those with 'mission critical' needs (babies, elderly, 2nd home) rolled the dice and are as much at fault as Nest IMHO. As more devices become 'smart', the companies that invest in design & testing will become more trusted. But also, consumers need to appreciate that a device is only as smart as the infrastructure it's connected too. Any limitations in your house need a fallback plan. (I'm actually glad that trickle charge hack has come home to roost)

eropple 11y ago
> Consumers are also at fault I can't disagree with this more. When you are trying to replace a thermostat, the onus is on you to do right by your customers. And that may be (is!) difficult. But the customer is never at fault for trusting you, but you can be at fault for abusing their trust.
- kordless 11y ago
  Your assertion implies a one way trust channel. Company ---trust---> customer. While money is stored trust, it can be used in a trusted or untrusted way. This implies there is little to no customer ---trust---> company. Most thermostats are trustworthy because they are simple. I bought a fancy thermostat back in the early 90s that had a small LCD screen on it and it would run a schedule if you set it. I eventually replaced it with a regular thermostat because it was a pain in the ass to adjust the temperature with button pushes and the hall that it was in was dark most of the time. This is the extent of customer trust given to a company. The ability to control the Nest with a dial and from my shell on my computer are great reasons for me to trust the Nest and buy it. That said, I'm also cognizant of the fact it needs to connect to the Internet to allow control from the CLI, do updates and set the schedule correctly. The onus may be on a company to do right by its customers, but the fact is that mistakes can and will occur if the requirements are such that a remote update and control system be in place for the product. I think @radiorental is correct that customers don't take the time to understand that having a device which provides X features comes with Y risk associated with it. Nest will always be at risk for "being at fault" for a problem that will occur again in the future. Customers need to understand that a time savings on one side may mean a time cost on the other, when Nest isn't able to cover it for them. I might point out that anyone who disagrees with this assertion assumes that Nest should not make mistakes. Assuming a complex system is perfect, or can achieve perfection, is irrational.
- radiorental 11y ago
  To put this into perspective. The competing product https://www.ecobee.com/ https://www.ecobee.com/ makes no attempt to power itself via trickle current. Nest, in an effort to widen the install base went out on a limb. And that's fine but a little research would reveal not insignificant user feedback with installation issues I'm putting some onus on the customer to understand all the pros & cons with a given product. With the state of smart devices in the home at the moment, homeowners are effectively system integrators. You can't have your cake and eat it. Would you put t-mobile at fault for selling a phone to a user who didn't check the coverage map first? Do you read Amazon reviews for any given product you purchase there, or assume all manufactures are selling the absolute best mankind can produce? The Nest is not fit for installation in a huge portion of homes. The trickle charge tries to side step lack of common wire. When it works it's fine, but it's not hard to find reports of weird installation problems.

eropple 11y ago

> Consumers are also at fault I can't disagree with this more. When you are trying to replace a thermostat, the onus is on you to do right by your customers. And that may be (is!) difficult. But the customer is never at fault for trusting you, but you can be at fault for abusing their trust.

kordless 11y ago
Your assertion implies a one way trust channel. Company ---trust---> customer. While money is stored trust, it can be used in a trusted or untrusted way. This implies there is little to no customer ---trust---> company. Most thermostats are trustworthy because they are simple. I bought a fancy thermostat back in the early 90s that had a small LCD screen on it and it would run a schedule if you set it. I eventually replaced it with a regular thermostat because it was a pain in the ass to adjust the temperature with button pushes and the hall that it was in was dark most of the time. This is the extent of customer trust given to a company. The ability to control the Nest with a dial and from my shell on my computer are great reasons for me to trust the Nest and buy it. That said, I'm also cognizant of the fact it needs to connect to the Internet to allow control from the CLI, do updates and set the schedule correctly. The onus may be on a company to do right by its customers, but the fact is that mistakes can and will occur if the requirements are such that a remote update and control system be in place for the product. I think @radiorental is correct that customers don't take the time to understand that having a device which provides X features comes with Y risk associated with it. Nest will always be at risk for "being at fault" for a problem that will occur again in the future. Customers need to understand that a time savings on one side may mean a time cost on the other, when Nest isn't able to cover it for them. I might point out that anyone who disagrees with this assertion assumes that Nest should not make mistakes. Assuming a complex system is perfect, or can achieve perfection, is irrational.
radiorental 11y ago
To put this into perspective. The competing product https://www.ecobee.com/ https://www.ecobee.com/ makes no attempt to power itself via trickle current. Nest, in an effort to widen the install base went out on a limb. And that's fine but a little research would reveal not insignificant user feedback with installation issues I'm putting some onus on the customer to understand all the pros & cons with a given product. With the state of smart devices in the home at the moment, homeowners are effectively system integrators. You can't have your cake and eat it. Would you put t-mobile at fault for selling a phone to a user who didn't check the coverage map first? Do you read Amazon reviews for any given product you purchase there, or assume all manufactures are selling the absolute best mankind can produce? The Nest is not fit for installation in a huge portion of homes. The trickle charge tries to side step lack of common wire. When it works it's fine, but it's not hard to find reports of weird installation problems.