4 ms·

There have been a few instances where someone wouldn't be too far out of line in assuming planned obsolescence with Apple. An example would be the notorious 20

There have been a few instances where someone wouldn't be too far out of line in assuming planned obsolescence with Apple. An example would be the notorious 2008 Macbook. When Apple launched Mountain Lion in 2012, it ditched support for the plastic Macbooks. So, that 2008 white Macbook my girlfriend bought only got new OS updates for 3 years, which was a pretty big bummer. For comparison, similarly equipped 2008 Windows laptops can run Windows 10 today without much fuss. In the end, her LCD started to short out anyway -- a common issue with Macbooks of that era -- so we got her a basic Toshiba laptop for about 1/2 the price of a Mac. It's still humming along nicely and I just dropped an SSD in it to give it a huge speed bump.

danieldk 11y ago
So, that 2008 white Macbook my girlfriend bought only got new OS updates for 3 years, which was a pretty big bummer. I agree that the support time was too short, but this is not the complete picture. OS X Lion was the last version that runs on the 2008 MacBook and received security updates until October 2014, so the model was supported for 6 years. In the end, her LCD started to short out anyway -- a common issue with Macbooks of that era -- so we got her a basic Toshiba laptop for about 1/2 the price of a Mac. It's still humming along nicely and I just dropped an SSD in it to give it a huge speed bump. You are doing it wrong ;). The resale value of MacBooks is very high. My wife usually gets my current MacBook after 1.5 years and we sell her old MacBook. We usually get 600-700 Euro. 400 Euro for using a MacBook for three years in total is not bad... The resale value for Windows laptops is typically bad. There is a company across the street where they sell 3-4 year old ThinkPads for 300 Euro.
- JohnTHaller 11y ago
  Security updates and the ability to run the latest OS are very different things, especially in Mac-land. Unlike Windows software which generally runs on a very wide range of versions, most Mac apps assume users are only running more recent releases. For example, Firefox runs Windows versions up to 14 years ago (Windows XP, which isn't even supported by Microsoft any more) but only on Mac OS X within the last 6 years (OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard). Couple that with the fact that it is very difficult to determine when Apple drops support for a given version of OS X because they have no published schedule and don't officially announce when they drop support of a specific version. In short, the equivalent 2008 Windows laptop is still getting security updates for the OS it came with, works with nearly all major Windows software, and can be updated to the latest version of Windows without much fuss. The 2008 Macbook is running an unsupported version of OS X, can't be upgraded to the current version of OS X, and can't run quite a lot of Mac software. Windows vs Mac resale value plays a lot into the way Windows folks use their laptops. The reason is that they generally use a given laptop until they no longer need it. My girlfriend's laptop will be 5 years old this year and was purchased for about the same amount of money it cost you to use your Macbook for 3 years. I spent another ~US$100 to upgrade to an SSD recently which will give it quite a bit more life. And it can be upgraded to Windows 10 for free if we want to at some point. Granted, it's only used for web browsing, office suite stuff, watching videos, recording and editing voice-over work etc, so it doesn't need to be the latest and greatest. So, it's really more a different use case. Your typical pattern of buy and sell is kind of fascinating to me as a Windows user, but makes complete sense given the comparable markets and models. The wider array of Windows laptop choices in different budgets accounts for the lower resale value of higher end Windows laptops. Most users are fine spending $400 or less on a Windows laptop for the basic browsing, email, photos, videos, etc needs. High end Windows laptop users want a new machine, not a used one. So, there's not much interest in $500 used Windows laptops... they don't serve either market segment well. In Mac-land, there is no $400-500 Mac laptop option, so anyone with only that budget has to look at used models. Thus, the demand keeps the cost for a used Macbook high compared to Windows laptops. In the end, I think we're both doing it right for our needs :)
  - Bud 11y ago
    Misleading. You're pointing to XP as a 14-year-old product. But who runs unpatched XP from 14 years ago? Nobody. It would be idiotic and even less secure than running somewhat-patched XP. This isn't even a real difference, just one created by the fact that Microsoft never bothered changing the name of XP when it was patched beyond all recognition.
    - JohnTHaller 11y ago
      As it was automatically upgraded with no charge to the end user from one service pack to another it is a single product in the context of this discussion. For comparison, at the time, Apple charged for each subsequent point release of OS X despite them often being roughly equivalent to a Windows service pack. Upgrading Mac OS X versions before Mavericks still requires payment today.
wil421 11y ago
My fiance has a plastic macbook (not a 2008) that is still supported and running El Capitan. It was running sluggishly so I too dropped in and SSD and some more RAM. The Macbook has fared well compared to my 2011 MBP which has video card issues Apple wont fix. Either way getting 5+ years out a laptop is outstanding. I went through a few Sony Vaios in that amount of time during their hayday plus a brand new computer that had the monitor go out completely. Plus I was stuck on windows which is a big pain point for me. Looking forward to replacing the '11 MBP once another refresh happens this year.
- DanBC 11y ago
  > Either way getting 5+ years out a laptop is outstanding. For most people who do a bit of emailing, some light www browsing, a bit of word processing and spreadsheeting, some messaging, and some very light gaming (solitaire): it's profoundly depressing that the needs of the bloated OS and the modern WWW[1] drive the need for ridiculous amounts of RAM and processor power. [1] Not talking about app delivery here, but about a newspaper website delivering mostly text and images with a bit of CSS, which they manage to turn into megabytes of text. Like, I have no idea how a recipee for daal turns into 5 megabytes.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- kenips 11y ago
  Which 2011 MBP do you have? We have 4 of our 15" 2011 MBPs fixed by Apple for free under the recall without any issues. https://www.apple.com/ca/support/macbookpro-videoissues/ https://www.apple.com/ca/support/macbookpro-videoissues/
X-Istence 11y ago
It really depends on the hardware. I still have an MBP from 2007 that is running El Capitan. Some of it ages better than others.
SyneRyder 11y ago
I can confirm this, and it's a good example of Apple's deliberate obsolescence. The 2007 MacBook 3,1 model doesn't officially support Mountain Lion, but it can be hacked to run it perfectly fine (look up ML Postfactor). Apple removed drivers from the final Mountain Lion release that would have allowed it to run on that hardware. Those old plastic MacBooks (the original 2006 MacBook 1,1 and newer) can all run Windows 10 via Boot Camp. Installing Windows 10 will give those machines a new lease on life - various apps like Kindle & Chrome 32-bit are no longer supported / updated on those old Macs, but they'll run perfectly fine under Windows 10.

danieldk 11y ago

So, that 2008 white Macbook my girlfriend bought only got new OS updates for 3 years, which was a pretty big bummer. I agree that the support time was too short, but this is not the complete picture. OS X Lion was the last version that runs on the 2008 MacBook and received security updates until October 2014, so the model was supported for 6 years. In the end, her LCD started to short out anyway -- a common issue with Macbooks of that era -- so we got her a basic Toshiba laptop for about 1/2 the price of a Mac. It's still humming along nicely and I just dropped an SSD in it to give it a huge speed bump. You are doing it wrong ;). The resale value of MacBooks is very high. My wife usually gets my current MacBook after 1.5 years and we sell her old MacBook. We usually get 600-700 Euro. 400 Euro for using a MacBook for three years in total is not bad... The resale value for Windows laptops is typically bad. There is a company across the street where they sell 3-4 year old ThinkPads for 300 Euro.

JohnTHaller 11y ago
Security updates and the ability to run the latest OS are very different things, especially in Mac-land. Unlike Windows software which generally runs on a very wide range of versions, most Mac apps assume users are only running more recent releases. For example, Firefox runs Windows versions up to 14 years ago (Windows XP, which isn't even supported by Microsoft any more) but only on Mac OS X within the last 6 years (OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard). Couple that with the fact that it is very difficult to determine when Apple drops support for a given version of OS X because they have no published schedule and don't officially announce when they drop support of a specific version. In short, the equivalent 2008 Windows laptop is still getting security updates for the OS it came with, works with nearly all major Windows software, and can be updated to the latest version of Windows without much fuss. The 2008 Macbook is running an unsupported version of OS X, can't be upgraded to the current version of OS X, and can't run quite a lot of Mac software. Windows vs Mac resale value plays a lot into the way Windows folks use their laptops. The reason is that they generally use a given laptop until they no longer need it. My girlfriend's laptop will be 5 years old this year and was purchased for about the same amount of money it cost you to use your Macbook for 3 years. I spent another ~US$100 to upgrade to an SSD recently which will give it quite a bit more life. And it can be upgraded to Windows 10 for free if we want to at some point. Granted, it's only used for web browsing, office suite stuff, watching videos, recording and editing voice-over work etc, so it doesn't need to be the latest and greatest. So, it's really more a different use case. Your typical pattern of buy and sell is kind of fascinating to me as a Windows user, but makes complete sense given the comparable markets and models. The wider array of Windows laptop choices in different budgets accounts for the lower resale value of higher end Windows laptops. Most users are fine spending $400 or less on a Windows laptop for the basic browsing, email, photos, videos, etc needs. High end Windows laptop users want a new machine, not a used one. So, there's not much interest in $500 used Windows laptops... they don't serve either market segment well. In Mac-land, there is no $400-500 Mac laptop option, so anyone with only that budget has to look at used models. Thus, the demand keeps the cost for a used Macbook high compared to Windows laptops. In the end, I think we're both doing it right for our needs :)
- Bud 11y ago
  Misleading. You're pointing to XP as a 14-year-old product. But who runs unpatched XP from 14 years ago? Nobody. It would be idiotic and even less secure than running somewhat-patched XP. This isn't even a real difference, just one created by the fact that Microsoft never bothered changing the name of XP when it was patched beyond all recognition.
  - JohnTHaller 11y ago
    As it was automatically upgraded with no charge to the end user from one service pack to another it is a single product in the context of this discussion. For comparison, at the time, Apple charged for each subsequent point release of OS X despite them often being roughly equivalent to a Windows service pack. Upgrading Mac OS X versions before Mavericks still requires payment today.

wil421 11y ago

My fiance has a plastic macbook (not a 2008) that is still supported and running El Capitan. It was running sluggishly so I too dropped in and SSD and some more RAM. The Macbook has fared well compared to my 2011 MBP which has video card issues Apple wont fix. Either way getting 5+ years out a laptop is outstanding. I went through a few Sony Vaios in that amount of time during their hayday plus a brand new computer that had the monitor go out completely. Plus I was stuck on windows which is a big pain point for me. Looking forward to replacing the '11 MBP once another refresh happens this year.

DanBC 11y ago
> Either way getting 5+ years out a laptop is outstanding. For most people who do a bit of emailing, some light www browsing, a bit of word processing and spreadsheeting, some messaging, and some very light gaming (solitaire): it's profoundly depressing that the needs of the bloated OS and the modern WWW[1] drive the need for ridiculous amounts of RAM and processor power. [1] Not talking about app delivery here, but about a newspaper website delivering mostly text and images with a bit of CSS, which they manage to turn into megabytes of text. Like, I have no idea how a recipee for daal turns into 5 megabytes.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
kenips 11y ago
Which 2011 MBP do you have? We have 4 of our 15" 2011 MBPs fixed by Apple for free under the recall without any issues. https://www.apple.com/ca/support/macbookpro-videoissues/ https://www.apple.com/ca/support/macbookpro-videoissues/

X-Istence 11y ago

It really depends on the hardware. I still have an MBP from 2007 that is running El Capitan. Some of it ages better than others.

SyneRyder 11y ago

I can confirm this, and it's a good example of Apple's deliberate obsolescence. The 2007 MacBook 3,1 model doesn't officially support Mountain Lion, but it can be hacked to run it perfectly fine (look up ML Postfactor). Apple removed drivers from the final Mountain Lion release that would have allowed it to run on that hardware. Those old plastic MacBooks (the original 2006 MacBook 1,1 and newer) can all run Windows 10 via Boot Camp. Installing Windows 10 will give those machines a new lease on life - various apps like Kindle & Chrome 32-bit are no longer supported / updated on those old Macs, but they'll run perfectly fine under Windows 10.