5 ms·

Public Service Announcement. If you are ill, go see a doctor. Skip the travel, spiritual enlightenment, and other ad-hoc treatment; cut to the chase - visit a

by DenisM 11y ago

Public Service Announcement. If you are ill, go see a doctor. Skip the travel, spiritual enlightenment, and other ad-hoc treatment; cut to the chase - visit a psychiatrist. If you wouldn't treat your own diabetes, you shouldn't treat your own mental health. Often times an afflicted person would not have the energy to make the visit, precisely due to the condition that needs treatment. If this happens to you, ask your friends for help.

jjoe 11y ago
It's perfectly normal for folks who are motivated, driven to succeed, and who work hard, to burden the stress and strains along the way. But there's wisdom in understanding one's own limits. It's a balancing act. A psychatrist and a blue pill aren't the fix here.
- e40 11y ago
  It is true that psychiatry has devolved (mostly) to writing a prescription, which is too bad. The idea of talking your problems through is more and more a thing of the past. And because of this, many people won't go to a psychiatrist, because they are opposed to the pharma approach.
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  - dangrossman 11y ago
    If you're on psychiatric medications and you need a prescription refilled, you need a med check appointment with a psychiatrist. A psychiatrist is a medical doctor (MD) who specialized. If you're depressed or stressed and want to talk to someone, you need a therapy appointment with a psychologist, therapist or counselor. They're different professions, and they're not incentivized to talk you out of therapy (the thing they get paid for) in favor of medication (which they'll have to send you elsewhere for, because they can't prescribe it).
  - DenisM 11y ago
    What is the basis for your blanket statements about psychiatry "mostly writing a prescription" and "talking ... the thing of the past"?
- cryoshon 11y ago
  Au contraire. It's perfectly normal for folks who are motivated and driven to succeed to be getting medicinal assistance with being the former. Bearing the stress and strains are often dealt with in a similar fashion. The pill may not be the "fix" but it's a way to keep up for those who may fall behind and get ahead for those who are only par normally. I'm not saying that this is the ideal situation, it's just what is.
unexpand 11y ago
Well said. Just to add, make a note of the things that OP said and keep up your effort by not relying totally 100% on medication, like you don't when diabetic and try a healthy meal along with the medication.
deleted 11y ago
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goodcanadian 11y ago
I agree in principle, but I feel that you have gone a step past the article. While the author did use the words "mental illness," I felt he was mostly talking about general mental well-being (i.e. how to avoid needing the doctor). To extend your analogy, you don't need to go to the doctor to eat well and exercise. You are correct, however, that a person should seek help if something does break. Further, for some people, it might be beneficial to seek assistance (such as therapy) before things break. To finish murdering the analogy, a nutritionist or personal trainer is probably not necessary to eat well or exercise, but they may be extremely valuable to some people.
trjordan 11y ago
> If you wouldn't treat your own diabetes, you shouldn't treat your own mental health. I treat my physical health on my own all the time. I take DayQuil, I take time off, I lay on the couch and watch TV. Heck, I injured my arm 3 months ago (tendonitis), and after 2 months of self-treatment, I felt like I wasn't doing enough, so I went to the doctor and they told me I was doing everything I could and there was nothing more they could do for me. I absolutely treat my mental health on my own, and I recommend everybody do it. It's not some bright line that you cross where you're all of a sudden "broken" and need a mechanic to fix it. It's the fuzzy art/science of medicine that absolutely requires patient cooperation and introspection to fix.
- deleted 11y ago
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- k-mcgrady 11y ago
  I don't want to come off too accusatory here but both your statement and the parents are damaging in my opinion. Depending on your issues you may be able to treat your own physical health and mental health but in both scenarios there may come a time when you require professional help. It may be different depending on where a person lives but for me there is no cost in visiting the doctor or getting mental health treatment. So in the example you gave of your arm it would make most sense to go to a doctor immediately rather than spend several months self treating when they may have a much more effective solution to the problem. Also, for mental health in the UK you general require a referral which can take several months so the longer you delay going to the doctor the longer you have to live with the issue. It doesn't apply in your case but it may in others. Not only may you get a solution immediately instead of spending months self-treating unsuccessfully but you may prevent the damage getting worse and in the case of mental health you can spiral downwards pretty quickly. I would say that if you recognise you have a mental health issue you should seek immediate professional help as if you let it get worse you can easily get to a point where you no longer have the right frame of mind to seek treatment even though it is even more necessary.
  - trjordan 11y ago
    Right, totally understood. My point is that there are shades of grey. - My arm. Did I mention this is the 3rd time I've hurt it this way? Since I'd seen this scenario before, I had heard professional opinion on how to treat it.+ - The cost. Time cost is real. In my case (and most founders), time is more valuable than money. Should we encourage more people to talk to more professionals than do today? Sure, yes, I do think so. But we should also encourage people to self-educate and self-treat. Those aren't at odds with each other.
RankingMember 11y ago
The problem is that the decision-making vessel is the thing experiencing the illness, so it's not always so simple as "Oh wow I'm ill, I should see a psych!" In addition, treatment for mental health is significantly less reliably effective than treatment for something like diabetes. If you find yourself questioning whether you should talk to someone, you absolutely should; my quarrel is with the way your statement seems to imply (to me) that diagnosis and treatment of mental illness is simple.
sanderjd 11y ago
How do you square the circle of struggling startup founders having bare minimum health insurance and their stressors often being based in financial uncertainty, with the expense of mental health professionals?
- DenisM 11y ago
  Buy health insurance. When you're young, or even middle-aged like me, the cost is only a fraction of housing. The problem here is that the very condition that needs treatment makes people seek excuses for not seeking help. This is why I advise leaning on friends - they won't look for excuses. And by the way, the "open enrollment" period is open right now: https://www.google.com/search?q=health+care+plan+finder https://www.google.com/search?q=health+care+plan+finder
  - sanderjd 11y ago
    In my experience, health insurance with affordable premiums has high enough deductibles that this sort of thing as the only ailment would be all out of pocket. I'm not saying your advice is wrong, just that for people struggling with financial stress, it is unfortunate that the advice is to spend a lot more money, whether it be in premiums or for services.
bpchaps 11y ago
Easier said than done when personality and mental illness are so easily comparable. The travel, etc was the catalyst that helped me clear my head to think about what was going on and finally ask my psychiatrist "What if I had X". I saw him maybe 10 times prior to that and the subject never even came up. Shit's hard, yo.
- DenisM 11y ago
  That sucks, 10 times is far too long. If a doctor can't figure out what's up in that much time, then it's time to move on to another doctor. The hardest part is working up the energy to make a change.
  - bpchaps 11y ago
    It's not that simple, even for the doctor. I've had about five doctors tell me that I have ADHD which always led to amphetamine based prescriptions. That generally helped with the attention issues, which was my biggest concern. The problem is that the mood issues were always just... "me". It just seemed like an aspect of mild depression that was always manageable. The daily internal dialogue would go: "My mood is absolutely awful right now. I have zero energy and feel depressed. But, this is just a fleeting feeling that should go away in an hour. I'll just deal with it. Coffee should help a bit for now, at least." In other words, I would swing between moods similar to bipolar II. Turns out that's the wrong way to look at it. Some major life events caused me to re-evaluate many things, so I took a major vacation by myself without contact to the world to gain a lot more self insight. Eventually that led to me asking my psychiatrist about bipolar/schizophrenia as a possible cause of my problems. (Some article on hacker news on mental health actually led to bringing up the specific questions.) When I brought it up, he even looked at me like I was trying to completely self-diagnose and initially shrugged it off. Technically, yes it's self-diagnosis, but it led to a more-correct diagnosis, but only after sending me to a research program that gave me a full psych evaluation. One of the doctors even mentioned multiple times "you're the perfect candidate for this study..." Go figure.. Mild aside - Similar doubt happens when I ask about lead poisoning as a possible attention/mood root. I used to shoot rifles competitively for years without taking care of washing my hands and such, so it's not a completely awful theory. Every doctor I brought it up to looked at me like an idiot and would just send me to get a blood test as if that's even a valid test. Still no answer there. (edit - editing)
munificent 11y ago
> Skip the travel, spiritual enlightenment, and other ad-hoc treatment; cut to the chase - visit a psychiatrist. A statement like this presumes all psychiatrists are equally good and roughly interchangeable. That hasn't been my experience at all. The variance is quite high and seems to be patient-dependent. So better advice is, "visit a series of psychiatrists until you find one that works well for you".
- DenisM 11y ago
  Yeah, that works, although it might be quite tedious. There are several ways to speed up the convergence: - Ask your friends for a referral. If you're ill, chances are that many of your friends are too - age, environment, and upbringing are contributing factors. - Ask a doctor in an adjacent field whom you know is competent. Rinse, repeat. This is also know as 'optimistic routing'. Works wonders in any field of medicine, and likely beyond. - Ask the local medical board. (Never tried it, but it should work).

by DenisM 11y ago

jjoe 11y ago

It's perfectly normal for folks who are motivated, driven to succeed, and who work hard, to burden the stress and strains along the way. But there's wisdom in understanding one's own limits. It's a balancing act. A psychatrist and a blue pill aren't the fix here.

e40 11y ago
It is true that psychiatry has devolved (mostly) to writing a prescription, which is too bad. The idea of talking your problems through is more and more a thing of the past. And because of this, many people won't go to a psychiatrist, because they are opposed to the pharma approach.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- dangrossman 11y ago
  If you're on psychiatric medications and you need a prescription refilled, you need a med check appointment with a psychiatrist. A psychiatrist is a medical doctor (MD) who specialized. If you're depressed or stressed and want to talk to someone, you need a therapy appointment with a psychologist, therapist or counselor. They're different professions, and they're not incentivized to talk you out of therapy (the thing they get paid for) in favor of medication (which they'll have to send you elsewhere for, because they can't prescribe it).
- DenisM 11y ago
  What is the basis for your blanket statements about psychiatry "mostly writing a prescription" and "talking ... the thing of the past"?
cryoshon 11y ago
Au contraire. It's perfectly normal for folks who are motivated and driven to succeed to be getting medicinal assistance with being the former. Bearing the stress and strains are often dealt with in a similar fashion. The pill may not be the "fix" but it's a way to keep up for those who may fall behind and get ahead for those who are only par normally. I'm not saying that this is the ideal situation, it's just what is.

unexpand 11y ago

Well said. Just to add, make a note of the things that OP said and keep up your effort by not relying totally 100% on medication, like you don't when diabetic and try a healthy meal along with the medication.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

goodcanadian 11y ago

I agree in principle, but I feel that you have gone a step past the article. While the author did use the words "mental illness," I felt he was mostly talking about general mental well-being (i.e. how to avoid needing the doctor). To extend your analogy, you don't need to go to the doctor to eat well and exercise. You are correct, however, that a person should seek help if something does break. Further, for some people, it might be beneficial to seek assistance (such as therapy) before things break. To finish murdering the analogy, a nutritionist or personal trainer is probably not necessary to eat well or exercise, but they may be extremely valuable to some people.

trjordan 11y ago

> If you wouldn't treat your own diabetes, you shouldn't treat your own mental health. I treat my physical health on my own all the time. I take DayQuil, I take time off, I lay on the couch and watch TV. Heck, I injured my arm 3 months ago (tendonitis), and after 2 months of self-treatment, I felt like I wasn't doing enough, so I went to the doctor and they told me I was doing everything I could and there was nothing more they could do for me. I absolutely treat my mental health on my own, and I recommend everybody do it. It's not some bright line that you cross where you're all of a sudden "broken" and need a mechanic to fix it. It's the fuzzy art/science of medicine that absolutely requires patient cooperation and introspection to fix.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
k-mcgrady 11y ago
I don't want to come off too accusatory here but both your statement and the parents are damaging in my opinion. Depending on your issues you may be able to treat your own physical health and mental health but in both scenarios there may come a time when you require professional help. It may be different depending on where a person lives but for me there is no cost in visiting the doctor or getting mental health treatment. So in the example you gave of your arm it would make most sense to go to a doctor immediately rather than spend several months self treating when they may have a much more effective solution to the problem. Also, for mental health in the UK you general require a referral which can take several months so the longer you delay going to the doctor the longer you have to live with the issue. It doesn't apply in your case but it may in others. Not only may you get a solution immediately instead of spending months self-treating unsuccessfully but you may prevent the damage getting worse and in the case of mental health you can spiral downwards pretty quickly. I would say that if you recognise you have a mental health issue you should seek immediate professional help as if you let it get worse you can easily get to a point where you no longer have the right frame of mind to seek treatment even though it is even more necessary.
- trjordan 11y ago
  Right, totally understood. My point is that there are shades of grey. - My arm. Did I mention this is the 3rd time I've hurt it this way? Since I'd seen this scenario before, I had heard professional opinion on how to treat it.+ - The cost. Time cost is real. In my case (and most founders), time is more valuable than money. Should we encourage more people to talk to more professionals than do today? Sure, yes, I do think so. But we should also encourage people to self-educate and self-treat. Those aren't at odds with each other.

RankingMember 11y ago

The problem is that the decision-making vessel is the thing experiencing the illness, so it's not always so simple as "Oh wow I'm ill, I should see a psych!" In addition, treatment for mental health is significantly less reliably effective than treatment for something like diabetes. If you find yourself questioning whether you should talk to someone, you absolutely should; my quarrel is with the way your statement seems to imply (to me) that diagnosis and treatment of mental illness is simple.

sanderjd 11y ago

How do you square the circle of struggling startup founders having bare minimum health insurance and their stressors often being based in financial uncertainty, with the expense of mental health professionals?

DenisM 11y ago
Buy health insurance. When you're young, or even middle-aged like me, the cost is only a fraction of housing. The problem here is that the very condition that needs treatment makes people seek excuses for not seeking help. This is why I advise leaning on friends - they won't look for excuses. And by the way, the "open enrollment" period is open right now: https://www.google.com/search?q=health+care+plan+finder https://www.google.com/search?q=health+care+plan+finder
- sanderjd 11y ago
  In my experience, health insurance with affordable premiums has high enough deductibles that this sort of thing as the only ailment would be all out of pocket. I'm not saying your advice is wrong, just that for people struggling with financial stress, it is unfortunate that the advice is to spend a lot more money, whether it be in premiums or for services.

bpchaps 11y ago

Easier said than done when personality and mental illness are so easily comparable. The travel, etc was the catalyst that helped me clear my head to think about what was going on and finally ask my psychiatrist "What if I had X". I saw him maybe 10 times prior to that and the subject never even came up. Shit's hard, yo.

DenisM 11y ago
That sucks, 10 times is far too long. If a doctor can't figure out what's up in that much time, then it's time to move on to another doctor. The hardest part is working up the energy to make a change.
- bpchaps 11y ago
  It's not that simple, even for the doctor. I've had about five doctors tell me that I have ADHD which always led to amphetamine based prescriptions. That generally helped with the attention issues, which was my biggest concern. The problem is that the mood issues were always just... "me". It just seemed like an aspect of mild depression that was always manageable. The daily internal dialogue would go: "My mood is absolutely awful right now. I have zero energy and feel depressed. But, this is just a fleeting feeling that should go away in an hour. I'll just deal with it. Coffee should help a bit for now, at least." In other words, I would swing between moods similar to bipolar II. Turns out that's the wrong way to look at it. Some major life events caused me to re-evaluate many things, so I took a major vacation by myself without contact to the world to gain a lot more self insight. Eventually that led to me asking my psychiatrist about bipolar/schizophrenia as a possible cause of my problems. (Some article on hacker news on mental health actually led to bringing up the specific questions.) When I brought it up, he even looked at me like I was trying to completely self-diagnose and initially shrugged it off. Technically, yes it's self-diagnosis, but it led to a more-correct diagnosis, but only after sending me to a research program that gave me a full psych evaluation. One of the doctors even mentioned multiple times "you're the perfect candidate for this study..." Go figure.. Mild aside - Similar doubt happens when I ask about lead poisoning as a possible attention/mood root. I used to shoot rifles competitively for years without taking care of washing my hands and such, so it's not a completely awful theory. Every doctor I brought it up to looked at me like an idiot and would just send me to get a blood test as if that's even a valid test. Still no answer there. (edit - editing)

munificent 11y ago

> Skip the travel, spiritual enlightenment, and other ad-hoc treatment; cut to the chase - visit a psychiatrist. A statement like this presumes all psychiatrists are equally good and roughly interchangeable. That hasn't been my experience at all. The variance is quite high and seems to be patient-dependent. So better advice is, "visit a series of psychiatrists until you find one that works well for you".

DenisM 11y ago
Yeah, that works, although it might be quite tedious. There are several ways to speed up the convergence: - Ask your friends for a referral. If you're ill, chances are that many of your friends are too - age, environment, and upbringing are contributing factors. - Ask a doctor in an adjacent field whom you know is competent. Rinse, repeat. This is also know as 'optimistic routing'. Works wonders in any field of medicine, and likely beyond. - Ask the local medical board. (Never tried it, but it should work).