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My opinion: “I don’t want to sound arrogant,” This is critical, remember Ballmer dismissing the iPhone? and Blackberry... and telcos... "Apple doesn’t know how

by xlayn 11y ago

My opinion: “I don’t want to sound arrogant,” This is critical, remember Ballmer dismissing the iPhone? and Blackberry... and telcos... "Apple doesn’t know how to handle a supply chain, or market its wares" that could also mean they can disrupt and disruption points are associated with market changes (check vapor engine vs fuel or iPhone vs every other phone). “We are going to build smart cars, but we also need to build smart roads, smart parking, smart public transportation systems, and more,” and this is the critical point, I'm old in tech years... and I like my clockwork internal combustion engines, I like to be able to drive them but the future people may not, getting what that future mass wants is the million dollar goal. For example... people may not want a car but to get somewhere and for example in NY that sound more rational than in TX, can we build a company around providing "Car as a service" (you hear it first here from xlayn :p) "the Ford executives believe that the firm’s in-house tech expertise is under-appreciated" or it can also mean they could leverage someone else expertise... (this is a question, I don't really know the answer). Last but not least... he want's to get the company into something while keeping the strong advantage they have in what they are strong and not becoming a hipster startup (as in lets make a trillion dollar company around 140 characters but there is no revenue model)... Edit: typos

jessriedel 11y ago
> "the Ford executives believe that the firm’s in-house tech expertise is under-appreciated" 5 minutes trying to use a Ford's music system makes it pretty clear that, at least for tech UI, they are awful. That they aren't publicly sheepish about it suggests that the guys in charge don't even notice the differences.
- merpnderp 11y ago
  This times 100. I have a 2011 Ford truck and hate the Sync system. It is absolute garbage, from blutooth syncing, usb syncing, to having a finicky mostly unusable interface. Add in that it was upgradeable for a while by myself, but then for some reason I had to take it in for $150 at the shop to get further upgrades. I've been burned so bad, I'll only look at vehicles that support Carplay in the future.
  - eitally 11y ago
    They upgraded to a new major version of Sync either this year or last, and it's MUCH better (I recently rented a 2015 Expedition XLT). It's still MUCH WORSE than even Chevy's system, though, so ymmv.
- sisk 11y ago
  ... but isn't Sync a Microsoft product built into Ford cars? It certainly was when I worked there in the mid-2000s. EDIT: Gen 1 and 2 are while the upcoming Gen 3 is built by Blackberry. "Ford cited issues with Microsoft's complex software dragging down its scores with Consumer Reports and other consumer magazines being a reason it switched to BlackBerry." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Sync https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Sync
  - SilasX 11y ago
    I tried out Sync myself, and I strongly agree with jessriedel. What's more, I don't think the bad design can be blamed on MS; much of Ford's side of it was a failure too. From my review at the time [1] - They don't make it easy to get someone to show you the system. (pts 1 and 2) - They make it so that if you just leave your iPod (a lot of people didn't have the phone at the time) plugged in, it has to be prominently visible to thieves (pt 4) - Despite them expecting you to use Sync for anything and everything, it's on an inner row of the steering wheel, requiring a really long thumb stretch to reach. (pt 6) - Hitting the phone button when you don't have a phone set up with it, will disable the audio system (and thus, further Sync action) until next time you turn the car on. (pt 8) [1] http://blog.tyrannyofthemouse.com/2008/07/setting-sync-straight-or-sync-sucx.html http://blog.tyrannyofthemouse.com/2008/07/setting-sync-strai...
    - bduerst 11y ago
      That blog post is from eight years ago. I am currently driving a C-Max and some of your points aren't relevant: - The dealer rep went to lengths to train me on the sync system even though I insisted I didn't need it. (Maybe it's different elsewhere) - The USB connection is inside the cubby between the seats, so you don't need to leave mp3 players in visible locations. - The sync activation is on the steering wheel, near the volume buttons, and is not at all difficult to tap. All in all, Sync has a weird tiered command system which is why I don't use it much, but it's not for lack of physical design.
      - SilasX 11y ago
- ErikAugust 11y ago
  Woof. Right. If you can't design a music system UI, what about something mission critical like the critical interface between human driving, and self-driving automation?
- HeyLaughingBoy 11y ago
  Are you seriously suggesting that the music system should be considered part of an automobile's core feature set? Personally, I'll swap a radio out in a heartbeat. A transmission, not so much.
  - Retric 11y ago
    Replacing radios has become far less common. Also, wheels and hubcaps are 'core' features that people often replace. PS: Car people sometimes do end up replacing the drive train. One guy I heard about replaced everything until his gear shaft was the weak point and it ended up breaking.
- lsc 11y ago
  >That they aren't publicly sheepish about it suggests that the guys in charge don't even notice the differences. My impression is that part of the 'being in charge' job is not acting sheepish, no matter how bad your product is, unless you have a solution that is dramatically different at hand.
djloche 11y ago
Apple looks obvious in hindsight, but at the time that was the reputation Apple had established for itself. Supply chain problems. Marketing problems. Money problems. eg. Blackberry is getting into the car automation business too. Right now that's a "lol, ok" response from most people, but if you look at the tech they own and are working on (QNX) it makes sense as a possible direction forward for the company. Will it pay off? I suppose in 10 years time we will look back and it will be obvious whether the investment was worth it or not.
ambicapter 11y ago
"Apple doesn’t know how to handle a supply chain, or market its wares" ...Aren't these Apple's strengths?
- gamblor956 11y ago
  They are, now. That was the point of the comment. Apple's weaknesses are now their biggest strengths.
orky56 11y ago
Thanks for pulling such a great excerpt. SV culture is about innovation, find solutions <i>in spite of</i> constraints. If the infrastructure is lacking, a combination of hardware & software can work around it to still accomplish the goals. It's funny but the auto industry, specifically Ford with the Model T, created the demand for cars arguably spurring the development of the network of roads required to take full advantage. What makes this time exciting is that there is an intersection of some amazing technologies, business models, and objectives for transportation: on-demand, renewables & energy, self-driving/autonomous, environment, etc. The best part is that multiple companies, new and old, are involved and want a piece of the increasingly bigger pie.
sbov 11y ago
I took the original Ford quotes regarding Apple/Tesla a bit differently. People keep these things for up to 30 years. I haven't had a car I kept for less than 10 years, and the average is over 10. There is a huge support network that goes into enabling this. At this stage in the game, are you willing to buy an Apple or Tesla product that you plan to keep for more than 10 years? Are you willing to bet that those Tesla supercharge stations will still exist in 10, 20, or 30 years? This is what the average consumer wants.
surge 11y ago
lol, a company that has to meet the demand of people lining up out the door across the world everytime they release a new product, doesn't know how to manage a supply chain...
Spooky23 11y ago
A company like Ford with a massive dealer network, good relationships with fleet buyers and other things that a new entrant doesn't have. If I want to buy a Tesla, I need to drive 150 miles and hope the thing never breaks. I have 4-5 Ford dealers within 20 minutes. Those dealers are sales channels, service channels and capable of doing more stuff. With the right strategy, those legacy disadvantages can be advantages. If Apple is able to build the capability to build a car in a couple of years, it's ridiculous to think that a company in the car business for a century cannot do it.

by xlayn 11y ago

jessriedel 11y ago

> "the Ford executives believe that the firm’s in-house tech expertise is under-appreciated" 5 minutes trying to use a Ford's music system makes it pretty clear that, at least for tech UI, they are awful. That they aren't publicly sheepish about it suggests that the guys in charge don't even notice the differences.

merpnderp 11y ago
This times 100. I have a 2011 Ford truck and hate the Sync system. It is absolute garbage, from blutooth syncing, usb syncing, to having a finicky mostly unusable interface. Add in that it was upgradeable for a while by myself, but then for some reason I had to take it in for $150 at the shop to get further upgrades. I've been burned so bad, I'll only look at vehicles that support Carplay in the future.
- eitally 11y ago
  They upgraded to a new major version of Sync either this year or last, and it's MUCH better (I recently rented a 2015 Expedition XLT). It's still MUCH WORSE than even Chevy's system, though, so ymmv.
sisk 11y ago
... but isn't Sync a Microsoft product built into Ford cars? It certainly was when I worked there in the mid-2000s. EDIT: Gen 1 and 2 are while the upcoming Gen 3 is built by Blackberry. "Ford cited issues with Microsoft's complex software dragging down its scores with Consumer Reports and other consumer magazines being a reason it switched to BlackBerry." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Sync https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Sync
- SilasX 11y ago
  I tried out Sync myself, and I strongly agree with jessriedel. What's more, I don't think the bad design can be blamed on MS; much of Ford's side of it was a failure too. From my review at the time [1] - They don't make it easy to get someone to show you the system. (pts 1 and 2) - They make it so that if you just leave your iPod (a lot of people didn't have the phone at the time) plugged in, it has to be prominently visible to thieves (pt 4) - Despite them expecting you to use Sync for anything and everything, it's on an inner row of the steering wheel, requiring a really long thumb stretch to reach. (pt 6) - Hitting the phone button when you don't have a phone set up with it, will disable the audio system (and thus, further Sync action) until next time you turn the car on. (pt 8) [1] http://blog.tyrannyofthemouse.com/2008/07/setting-sync-straight-or-sync-sucx.html http://blog.tyrannyofthemouse.com/2008/07/setting-sync-strai...
  - bduerst 11y ago
    That blog post is from eight years ago. I am currently driving a C-Max and some of your points aren't relevant: - The dealer rep went to lengths to train me on the sync system even though I insisted I didn't need it. (Maybe it's different elsewhere) - The USB connection is inside the cubby between the seats, so you don't need to leave mp3 players in visible locations. - The sync activation is on the steering wheel, near the volume buttons, and is not at all difficult to tap. All in all, Sync has a weird tiered command system which is why I don't use it much, but it's not for lack of physical design.
    - SilasX 11y ago
ErikAugust 11y ago
Woof. Right. If you can't design a music system UI, what about something mission critical like the critical interface between human driving, and self-driving automation?
HeyLaughingBoy 11y ago
Are you seriously suggesting that the music system should be considered part of an automobile's core feature set? Personally, I'll swap a radio out in a heartbeat. A transmission, not so much.
- Retric 11y ago
  Replacing radios has become far less common. Also, wheels and hubcaps are 'core' features that people often replace. PS: Car people sometimes do end up replacing the drive train. One guy I heard about replaced everything until his gear shaft was the weak point and it ended up breaking.
lsc 11y ago
>That they aren't publicly sheepish about it suggests that the guys in charge don't even notice the differences. My impression is that part of the 'being in charge' job is not acting sheepish, no matter how bad your product is, unless you have a solution that is dramatically different at hand.

djloche 11y ago

Apple looks obvious in hindsight, but at the time that was the reputation Apple had established for itself. Supply chain problems. Marketing problems. Money problems. eg. Blackberry is getting into the car automation business too. Right now that's a "lol, ok" response from most people, but if you look at the tech they own and are working on (QNX) it makes sense as a possible direction forward for the company. Will it pay off? I suppose in 10 years time we will look back and it will be obvious whether the investment was worth it or not.

ambicapter 11y ago

"Apple doesn’t know how to handle a supply chain, or market its wares" ...Aren't these Apple's strengths?

gamblor956 11y ago
They are, now. That was the point of the comment. Apple's weaknesses are now their biggest strengths.

orky56 11y ago

Thanks for pulling such a great excerpt. SV culture is about innovation, find solutions <i>in spite of</i> constraints. If the infrastructure is lacking, a combination of hardware & software can work around it to still accomplish the goals. It's funny but the auto industry, specifically Ford with the Model T, created the demand for cars arguably spurring the development of the network of roads required to take full advantage. What makes this time exciting is that there is an intersection of some amazing technologies, business models, and objectives for transportation: on-demand, renewables & energy, self-driving/autonomous, environment, etc. The best part is that multiple companies, new and old, are involved and want a piece of the increasingly bigger pie.

sbov 11y ago

I took the original Ford quotes regarding Apple/Tesla a bit differently. People keep these things for up to 30 years. I haven't had a car I kept for less than 10 years, and the average is over 10. There is a huge support network that goes into enabling this. At this stage in the game, are you willing to buy an Apple or Tesla product that you plan to keep for more than 10 years? Are you willing to bet that those Tesla supercharge stations will still exist in 10, 20, or 30 years? This is what the average consumer wants.

surge 11y ago

lol, a company that has to meet the demand of people lining up out the door across the world everytime they release a new product, doesn't know how to manage a supply chain...

Spooky23 11y ago

A company like Ford with a massive dealer network, good relationships with fleet buyers and other things that a new entrant doesn't have. If I want to buy a Tesla, I need to drive 150 miles and hope the thing never breaks. I have 4-5 Ford dealers within 20 minutes. Those dealers are sales channels, service channels and capable of doing more stuff. With the right strategy, those legacy disadvantages can be advantages. If Apple is able to build the capability to build a car in a couple of years, it's ridiculous to think that a company in the car business for a century cannot do it.