5 ms·

Slightly off-topic: Print is still far and away the best medium for archiving information for future generations.

freehunter 11y ago
Although paper, especially the paper commonly used in newsprint, is terrible for it. Ever try to archive newspapers without taking extra steps to preserve them? It's gone in a decade or two. Long-term archiving is a problem no matter what the medium.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- dear 11y ago
  I have books and newspaper from decades ago. They are still fine. No special treatment.
  - freehunter 11y ago
    Some newsprint may last longer than others, but in general, newspapers turn yellow and become brittle after a fairly short period of time. That's why the US Constitution is stored in such an elaborate way, and why big libraries tend to have important and old papers/books stores in a secure vault, and keep newspaper archives on micro film. The Smithsonian has instructions on how to preserve newspaper, and reasons why it deteriorates so quickly: http://siarchives.si.edu/services/forums/collections-care-guidelines-resources/how-do-i-preserve-my-newspaper http://siarchives.si.edu/services/forums/collections-care-gu... I saved some papers from 9/11 in a shoebox in a closet, and when I opened it 10 years later, some of the papers crumbled in my hands. Paper of any kind is fragile and easily damaged by humidity, weather, and fire. We give books and newspaper special treatment every day they're kept safe in our climate-controlled houses. If civilization came crashing down, these archives would be lost very quickly.
- Mandatum 11y ago
  Unless it's in a landfill where even newspapers last well over 50 years still readable: https://books.google.co.nz/books?id=qhYDD8joCbQC&lpg=PT574&ots=vgqSEgeWz9&dq=landfill%20newspaper%20biodegrade%2050%20year%20old&pg=PT574#v=snippet&q=50-year-old%20newspapers&f=false https://books.google.co.nz/books?id=qhYDD8joCbQC&lpg=PT574&o...
drzaiusapelord 11y ago
Digital is clearly the winner here from various perspectives but a bit fragile, but if we had to pick something that was especially solid and apocalypse proof, stone tablets would beat out print any day. Newspapers and books decay relatively quickly, are susceptible to fire, susceptible to flooding, etc. You can go to London and read the 2200 year old Rosetta Stone all you like after learning the basics of ancient Greek (like I did), which shouldn't be too tough for a native english speaker. Or if you're a real go-getter you can learn ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics and read the pottery from Abydos which is about 5200 years old. Meanwhile, we just have to accept the losses at the famous burning of the library of Alexandria. Newspapers just decades old are all but dust now. There's no lasting power in paper. Stone and clay tablets is where its at. From a more realistic perspective, we live in an age where every tinpot dictator can get nuclear weapons and every powerful nation has enough to end the world, so past ideas of human survival let alone knowledge survival may be a bit naive. There's probably nothing that will survive WWIII and there's no reason to think WWIII isn't going to happen eventually.
- ctstover 11y ago
  There are many kinds of paper. Cost is one of the factors in the matrix of trade-offs. Newspaper paper is almost at the extreme low end of the spectrum. There really is paper that could give you 1-2 centuries easily using a monochrome laser printer. Not as good as stone, but does not require windows update.
  - drzaiusapelord 11y ago
    The problem is that fire and water will still destroy it. With digital, you can easily just have thousands of copies spread around various data centers and never have to worry about that. The low cost to copy and the ease of transfer are pretty big advantages here. And you get things like easy searching, perfect copies, etc as well.
    - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
      Nitpick: fire and water will destroy digital copies too.

Although paper, especially the paper commonly used in newsprint, is terrible for it. Ever try to archive newspapers without taking extra steps to preserve them? It's gone in a decade or two. Long-term archiving is a problem no matter what the medium.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
dear 11y ago
I have books and newspaper from decades ago. They are still fine. No special treatment.
- freehunter 11y ago
  Some newsprint may last longer than others, but in general, newspapers turn yellow and become brittle after a fairly short period of time. That's why the US Constitution is stored in such an elaborate way, and why big libraries tend to have important and old papers/books stores in a secure vault, and keep newspaper archives on micro film. The Smithsonian has instructions on how to preserve newspaper, and reasons why it deteriorates so quickly: http://siarchives.si.edu/services/forums/collections-care-guidelines-resources/how-do-i-preserve-my-newspaper http://siarchives.si.edu/services/forums/collections-care-gu... I saved some papers from 9/11 in a shoebox in a closet, and when I opened it 10 years later, some of the papers crumbled in my hands. Paper of any kind is fragile and easily damaged by humidity, weather, and fire. We give books and newspaper special treatment every day they're kept safe in our climate-controlled houses. If civilization came crashing down, these archives would be lost very quickly.
Mandatum 11y ago
Unless it's in a landfill where even newspapers last well over 50 years still readable: https://books.google.co.nz/books?id=qhYDD8joCbQC&lpg=PT574&ots=vgqSEgeWz9&dq=landfill%20newspaper%20biodegrade%2050%20year%20old&pg=PT574#v=snippet&q=50-year-old%20newspapers&f=false https://books.google.co.nz/books?id=qhYDD8joCbQC&lpg=PT574&o...

drzaiusapelord 11y ago

Digital is clearly the winner here from various perspectives but a bit fragile, but if we had to pick something that was especially solid and apocalypse proof, stone tablets would beat out print any day. Newspapers and books decay relatively quickly, are susceptible to fire, susceptible to flooding, etc. You can go to London and read the 2200 year old Rosetta Stone all you like after learning the basics of ancient Greek (like I did), which shouldn't be too tough for a native english speaker. Or if you're a real go-getter you can learn ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics and read the pottery from Abydos which is about 5200 years old. Meanwhile, we just have to accept the losses at the famous burning of the library of Alexandria. Newspapers just decades old are all but dust now. There's no lasting power in paper. Stone and clay tablets is where its at. From a more realistic perspective, we live in an age where every tinpot dictator can get nuclear weapons and every powerful nation has enough to end the world, so past ideas of human survival let alone knowledge survival may be a bit naive. There's probably nothing that will survive WWIII and there's no reason to think WWIII isn't going to happen eventually.

ctstover 11y ago
There are many kinds of paper. Cost is one of the factors in the matrix of trade-offs. Newspaper paper is almost at the extreme low end of the spectrum. There really is paper that could give you 1-2 centuries easily using a monochrome laser printer. Not as good as stone, but does not require windows update.
- drzaiusapelord 11y ago
  The problem is that fire and water will still destroy it. With digital, you can easily just have thousands of copies spread around various data centers and never have to worry about that. The low cost to copy and the ease of transfer are pretty big advantages here. And you get things like easy searching, perfect copies, etc as well.
  - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
    Nitpick: fire and water will destroy digital copies too.