5 ms·

> This will have to be very good to be better than Visual Studio on Windows. Really? I feel MS has really dropped the ball with VS. VS2013 was OK, but not gr

by louthy 11y ago

> This will have to be very good to be better than Visual Studio on Windows. Really? I feel MS has really dropped the ball with VS. VS2013 was OK, but not great. A lot of random lock-ups in really annoying situations where you can't even fathom why (like opening a text file). VS 2015 is actually awful - it wasn't until Update 1 that typing this (below) in C# would pop-up an on screen exception dialog: class Foo : Bar { public Foo() : Pressing enter after the colon would throw the exception consistently. How on earth was that missed in testing? This is such a common C# pattern for invoking the base or this constructor. I often find myself staring at the screen, saying in my head 'What the hell are you doing now!'. The new DNX project system is unusably slow (compiling) and the tooling for it is non-existent. And for me it still crashes all of the time. Other devs on my team are having similar problems. TFS and TFS explorer is a total joke. The 'offline mode' is slower than online mode, and also causes crashes. If I lose my VPN connection then I have to shutdown VS and restart before TFS will reconnect again (this has been an issue for every version of VS I've used). Luckily we're moving away from that travesty of a system to git very soon (the VS git integration is actually pretty good). I used to feel that VS was a really solid piece of tooling, and I agreed with your sentiment that I quoted. I don't any more. I will check this out, and if it works then I'll happily drop VS, two years ago I couldn't ever imagine myself saying that. Competition can only be a good thing here.

yoklov 11y ago
> I feel MS has really dropped the ball with VS. This has been the case for C++ for a while now. Every version of VS has gotten worse since, IDK, 2006 or something (and that's ignoring how long it takes them to finish new versions of the language). I had a suspicion that they had moved their A team over to work on C#, but hearing this... maybe they're just getting worse.
- alkonaut 11y ago
  For C# at least every version is at least better than the previous. 2015 was the big Roslyn makeover so I suppose I can accept a few more regressions than usual. But feature-wise, each version has had at least one killer feature that made the previous seem dated on day 1. Examples: edit-and-continue, or lambdas in watches.
  - louthy 11y ago
    Yeah like when they removed macros /sarcasm Sarcasm notwithstanding, that was a terrible decision that still annoys me almost daily when I want to automate a repetitive task in the text-editor.
arethuza 11y ago
"TFS and TFS explorer is a total joke." I've been rather pleasantly surprised at how much support MS are giving git and github - they offer git hosting on Visual Studio Online and the Azure documentation is in github. Edit: Added pleasantly! :-)
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
shadowwolf007 11y ago
I hate to say this, but a lot of your issues might also be coming from the TFS integration. I know I used to have a bear of a time with random crashes and issues. Since switching to git & resharper I have had a much, much easier time. With 1 notable exception of 1 huge project. On large, 40+ project, solutions it seems like Visual Studio just falls on its face. Our new team is redirecting toward microservice approaches in light of some of these frustrations. Not that your arch should be dictated by your editor, but quality of life is what it is.
- louthy 11y ago
  > I hate to say this, but a lot of your issues might also be coming from the TFS integration. I suspect some of the problems are, for sure - our big internal project is a multi-million line app, maybe 70-80 csprojs. VS2013 dealt with it OK, but had its occasional problems (the TFS issues weren't occasional though), VS2015 is much worse in general. It's very unstable. My open-source project LanguageExt [1] uses git and isn't that large. I still get crashes and lock-ups. It was the first project I migrated to DNX also. It takes an age to build (where the sln/csproj system doesn't), and nails the CPU (99% usage). Something is very wrong, and very unfinished. I can see where MS is going with this new open-source tools approach, but at the moment the whole thing seems to be a mess, and VS just can't deal with it. The one ray of light is the git integration. That works for the most common scenarios. I only occasionally have to drop back to the cmd line. [1] https://github.com/louthy/language-ext https://github.com/louthy/language-ext
  - shadowwolf007 11y ago
    Yeah - not surprised the DNX stuff is wonky. It seems like every time there's a new project format the first version is just really awful. I think they really only test it on small almost toy-level projects thoroughly but fully conjecture. That's a very cool project though - what got you going on that? If I could convince my coworkers to not kill me for doing so, I would try to introduce using that at work :-) I've definitely gotten them on to the immutability by default train of thought tho - a lot of people very happy with that mindset considering how much of work has become parallel processing. It's amazing how much faster you can do things like build invoices of thousands of items when you can process the whole thing in parallel :-D My pref has always been command line tbh - getting away from TFS was the best thing that ever happened for me.
rjbwork 11y ago
TBH, I've been using VS2013 since release day, and I can count on 1 hand the amount of times it has crashed on me when running natively on a workhorse computer. I had tons of problems with it when I was running it in a VM on a MacBook Pro though...
VSTeam 11y ago
Hi Louthy, I've forwarded your comments regarding DNX and TFS to the team. Can you ping us at VScteam@micosoft.com? We'd like to chat more. Thanks.

by louthy 11y ago

yoklov 11y ago

> I feel MS has really dropped the ball with VS. This has been the case for C++ for a while now. Every version of VS has gotten worse since, IDK, 2006 or something (and that's ignoring how long it takes them to finish new versions of the language). I had a suspicion that they had moved their A team over to work on C#, but hearing this... maybe they're just getting worse.

alkonaut 11y ago
For C# at least every version is at least better than the previous. 2015 was the big Roslyn makeover so I suppose I can accept a few more regressions than usual. But feature-wise, each version has had at least one killer feature that made the previous seem dated on day 1. Examples: edit-and-continue, or lambdas in watches.
- louthy 11y ago
  Yeah like when they removed macros /sarcasm Sarcasm notwithstanding, that was a terrible decision that still annoys me almost daily when I want to automate a repetitive task in the text-editor.

arethuza 11y ago

"TFS and TFS explorer is a total joke." I've been rather pleasantly surprised at how much support MS are giving git and github - they offer git hosting on Visual Studio Online and the Azure documentation is in github. Edit: Added pleasantly! :-)

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

shadowwolf007 11y ago

I hate to say this, but a lot of your issues might also be coming from the TFS integration. I know I used to have a bear of a time with random crashes and issues. Since switching to git & resharper I have had a much, much easier time. With 1 notable exception of 1 huge project. On large, 40+ project, solutions it seems like Visual Studio just falls on its face. Our new team is redirecting toward microservice approaches in light of some of these frustrations. Not that your arch should be dictated by your editor, but quality of life is what it is.

louthy 11y ago
> I hate to say this, but a lot of your issues might also be coming from the TFS integration. I suspect some of the problems are, for sure - our big internal project is a multi-million line app, maybe 70-80 csprojs. VS2013 dealt with it OK, but had its occasional problems (the TFS issues weren't occasional though), VS2015 is much worse in general. It's very unstable. My open-source project LanguageExt [1] uses git and isn't that large. I still get crashes and lock-ups. It was the first project I migrated to DNX also. It takes an age to build (where the sln/csproj system doesn't), and nails the CPU (99% usage). Something is very wrong, and very unfinished. I can see where MS is going with this new open-source tools approach, but at the moment the whole thing seems to be a mess, and VS just can't deal with it. The one ray of light is the git integration. That works for the most common scenarios. I only occasionally have to drop back to the cmd line. [1] https://github.com/louthy/language-ext https://github.com/louthy/language-ext
- shadowwolf007 11y ago
  Yeah - not surprised the DNX stuff is wonky. It seems like every time there's a new project format the first version is just really awful. I think they really only test it on small almost toy-level projects thoroughly but fully conjecture. That's a very cool project though - what got you going on that? If I could convince my coworkers to not kill me for doing so, I would try to introduce using that at work :-) I've definitely gotten them on to the immutability by default train of thought tho - a lot of people very happy with that mindset considering how much of work has become parallel processing. It's amazing how much faster you can do things like build invoices of thousands of items when you can process the whole thing in parallel :-D My pref has always been command line tbh - getting away from TFS was the best thing that ever happened for me.

rjbwork 11y ago

TBH, I've been using VS2013 since release day, and I can count on 1 hand the amount of times it has crashed on me when running natively on a workhorse computer. I had tons of problems with it when I was running it in a VM on a MacBook Pro though...

VSTeam 11y ago

Hi Louthy, I've forwarded your comments regarding DNX and TFS to the team. Can you ping us at VScteam@micosoft.com? We'd like to chat more. Thanks.