24 ms·

My first ten-day Vipassana retreat

205 points by mwidell 11y ago

seren 11y ago
I find the experience interesting. However, I can't to help to think that a 10 days Vipassana session is kind of extreme, from checking your smartphone 100 times an hour to not speaking to anyone for 10 days. There are probably milder ways to experience better mindfulness and focus. And then somehow, I understand that in our daily lives it might be easier to commit to 10 days than having the fortitude to leave social media for a day. I also feel it tells something about our time when we want to have full and unadulterated experiences.
- Alex3917 11y ago
  > However, I can't to help to think that a 10 days Vipassana session is kind of extreme The theory is that that's sort of the minimum you need to get the full experience, in terms of the getting the point where there are significant psychological and physiological changes. I think it could probably be 8 or 9 days instead, but realistically things don't start getting interesting until day 6 or 7 and that's after doing it for 7 - 10 hours per day. I did it once and I'd like to do it again, but realistically it is pretty difficult to balance with other life commitments.
- kup0 11y ago
  It's possible that experiencing the extreme makes the "milder ways" much easier to make a habit. When you've just meditated for 11 hours a day for 10 days straight, 30 minutes a day seems like nothing. I think the retreats are often just a way to gain perspective or a "crash course" that you can then apply to your life once you leave.
  - mbrock 11y ago
    FWIW, I've talked to plenty of people for whom this has been far from the case. They went to a 10 day retreat, some of them had blissful times or fascinating out-of-body experiences or whatever, but most of these people haven't ended up with a stable daily meditation practice. So right now I'm pretty skeptical about this hypothesis.
    - kup0 11y ago
      It's possible that's the case. It does take far more than 10 days of devoting your time to something to truly make it a habit, especially when experienced in such a different setting that will be nothing like home. My original post was just a thought/hypothesis presented without any data to back it up.
    - nzp 11y ago
      I don't know what you (they) meant by "blissful times", but "fascinating out-of-body" experiences doesn't sound right. It could be that they experienced something close to Jhana[0] but I'm skeptical it can be done on a 10 day Vipassana retreat with no previous experience. In all Buddhist traditions, excepting Tantric ones, that emphasize meditation, the techniques (Vipassana being one of them) are mostly really hard work in practicing concentration and attentiveness. It's very hard to get it right, essentially to practice hard without practicing hard, without attaching yourself even to the effort you're expanding, which then can lead to Jhanas. Most of the time, I think, people convince themselves they are experiencing fascinating things, but it's just the mind playing it's tricks. Especially in the West where people attach all sorts of wacky stuff to the term "meditation", which really isn't event the right translation of "samadhi" as it's borrowed from Christianity where "contemplation" is much better fitting as a Western analogue (other techniques from Tantric Buddhism, on the other hand fit the Western term "meditation" better). [0] http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sacca/sacca4/samma-samadhi/jhana.html http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sacca/sacca4/samma...
- mvanvoorden 11y ago
  Being without smartphone and no talking is the easiest part. At least for me, an ADHD IT nerd who checks his phone all day long, and very, very talkative personality. It was the best 10 days of my life, it felt quite liberating. And now my phone stays in my pocket most of the day, I talk a bit less, and I have no stress at my job at all, as I just do what I can and the rest is for tomorrow and after. Any milder way wouldn't have the same effect, you cannot train discipline by giving in to your mind all the time.
- mbrock 11y ago
  One milder way is to just start meditating daily. You can start with five minutes, or even one minute.
iss 11y ago
Respect! This has been on my bucket list for a while, but I haven't still found the courage to do it!
dorianm 11y ago
Great summary of his experience. While travelling I met several people who went to meditation retreats and they seemed to all have the insight of stopping to check their phone so often, or even stop having a smartphone. Also, because of that it's unlikely many of them read Hacker News or Medium so there is a selection biais as to who is talking about those meditation retreats.
RikNieu 11y ago
I'd love to run a retreat center like this. I'd augment it with a scientifically-backed nutritional plan, have floatation tanks available, and spend a bit more time helping visitors make sense of what they're experiencing and how to proceed. And definitely, definitely manage expectations better than most of these places. Most of the cultish vibes and/or disappointments that can emerge from these kind of retreats are because people are prone to hyperbole when they spend some time on activities so completely out of their frame of reference.
- beagle3 11y ago
  > a scientifically-backed nutritional plan, That would be refreshing, because almost none are. What did you have in mind?
  - puredemo 11y ago
    Nothing but Soylent drinks and Slow-cooked BBQ
    - kweinber 11y ago
      ... and beano.
    - RikNieu 11y ago
      Consumed separately, I would hope...
  - RikNieu 11y ago
    Haven't put too much thought in it, too be honest, as it's mostly a pie-in-the-sky dream at the moment. But I'd probably sit down(with some other, more knowledgable folks) and consider things like vit D3, omega 3, magnesium and zinc supplementation, microbiome stimulation, possible ketosis for those who react positively to it,and a general elimination of unnecessary sugars. Hydration, maybe surprisingly, would be a major component as well. Another one would be breathing exercises, stretches and light exercise(to encourage serotonin and hormonal stimulation), all of which can be combined with meditative practices ala yoga or taijiquan. On the extreme side, for those who are especially adventurous, I'd even consider sessions with nootropics, and possible micro-dosing with psilocybin or DMT - where legally permitted. This would absolutely be done with the involvement of medical professionals, I should add.
ilostmykeys 11y ago
Hmm. I wonder what kind of person I'd be if I had the privelege and luxury to be by myself without having to talk to anyone or be a slave to mt phone, for ten damn days. Imagine! I want to go to there!
- jmspring 11y ago
  I went to a retreat at Tassajara Zen Center recently. If I didn't have obligations (wife, house, bills), spending time in a place meditating and focusing inward would be a wonderful experience. In this case they are more a Japanese style of Zen Buddhism... Quite stark and austere.
  - endlessvoid94 11y ago
    I would love to know more about the retreat you did, if you'd be willing to share. That seems a lot more accessible to me, since I'm in the bay area.
    - jmspring 11y ago
      See reply below for what I did. There are formal retreats during the late spring to early fall. There is a retreat fee and different sorts of lodging prices (from shared dorms to private cabins on the creek). Some people just go to work and stay there at a reduced to minimal cost (typical work could be anything from landscaping to the kitchen to helping clean cabins). This sort of approach one stays in one of the dorms. What was surprising to me is the number of people there. Monks/students probably between 80 and 100 with guests in the same range. Tassajara Zen Center website has more details I believe. There are two other properties as well (in SF and in Marin County). http://sfzc.org http://sfzc.org
      - endlessvoid94 11y ago
        thanks!
  - randycupertino 11y ago
semerda 11y ago
Nice write up! Thanks for sharing. I attended a similar retreat in Australia and it's definitely a nice way to decompress and reflect. However trying to bring it into everyday habit/life is a lot harder. In the end I found that isolation tanks/floatation filled that need perfectly. My write up here: http://www.theroadtosiliconvalley.com/local-california/floatation-tank-isolation-tanks/ http://www.theroadtosiliconvalley.com/local-california/float... Have you tried floatation?
wdrw 11y ago
I did a Vipassana retreat a few years ago. Definitely an incredible experience, and I could see directly measurable positive effects on my thinking, on how I made decisions, etc. afterwards (although the effect does wear off after a while if you don't keep meditating regularly). However, I feel I must mention some negatives as well. First, the course emphasizes many times that it is purely secular, but towards the end it slides into the more religious aspects of Buddhism (reincarnation and even some explicitly anti-scientific ideas). I feel that this can turn off a lot of the more analytically-minded/secular/atheist people, which is a real shame because Vipassana still makes a lot of sense without these religious aspects. Secondly, towards the end of the course there's real pressure in the lectures to accept Vipassana as the "one true way" to meditate, and I got a little bit of a cult-ish vibe from some of the returning students and especially from the volunteers. Not to the degree that it's going to be a problem for most people, but I can see how a small minority of "brainwash-susceptible" individuals, especially in a vulnerable stage in life, may throw themselves 100% into Vipassana after a retreat, instead of critically thinking about this powerful experience afterwards. So my advice: definitely do it if you can, take it seriously and give it your 100%, but don't turn off your critical thinking skills during the lectures or after the retreat. If you can do it, there's lots to gain.
- mmohebbi 11y ago
  Yes- nice to see I'm not the only one who felt this way! It's an amazing experience but some of the cultish aspects bothered me as well. I understand that they want you to focus on the Vipassana way of meditating during the retreat but pushing it as the "one true way" felt contradictory.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
- shockzzz 11y ago
  I can't stand people who say Buddhism is not a religion. In many, many, MANY ways Christianity is as much a philosophy as Buddhism is. People also don't realize that Buddhism in the West is specifically catered to Westerners who are sick of the dogma of the Abrahamic religions. Ironically, Buddhism is filled with the same dogma, but it's hidden in the West until you buy into it. I can't imagine it's entirely different from how Christian missionaries approach developing countries. Not saying that Buddhism is "bad" - not at all. But it is in no way as secular, or as peaceful, as Westerners think it is. It has a long and torrid history of violence, as well as dogma. I just wish people recognized Buddhism for what it is - a religion.
shobhitverma 11y ago
This November was my sixth 10 day Vipassana course (first was 12 years ago). I achieved momentary clarity on the 8th day which helped me get rid of some of unnecessary but deep rooted complexes of my mind. I believe that it was possible only because of the continued practice and focus of the past 7 days. If it were two courses of 4 days each with some gap in between, I do not think I would be able to experience what I did. In other words, I feel that my brain needed the 10 consecutive days.
- pc86 11y ago
  > I achieved momentary clarity on the 8th day which helped me get rid of some of unnecessary but deep rooted complexes of my mind. Can someone with experience in meditation explain what this actually means?
  - mvanvoorden 11y ago
    During meditation, one can experience moments of such clarity of mind, that the answers to difficult or deep rooted issues suddenly show up in front of you. Usually it turns out the solution is so simple, that they wonder why they've never seen it before, and now they cannot unsee it. Like an epiphany.
  - patrickmay 11y ago
    For me it means that I was able to look objectively at some of my ways of thinking and feeling and realize that I didn't have to do it that way. I was able to let go of the attachment to doing so and change my own reaction to things. In the tradition I follow this is called "finding the listener".
- patrickmay 11y ago
  I did a 10 day workshop with Jelle Bode last February and found the same thing. The combination of active and passive meditation, silence except for answering the question "Tell me who you are.", no alcohol or caffeine, and no outside contact really works if you give it the time. My personal clarity occurred in the afternoon of the seventh day. I wonder if that timing is similar for everyone.
kevin_thibedeau 11y ago
I'm really getting tired of "st" ligatures in sans-serif fonts. Who came up with this horrible idea?
nether 11y ago
If you're interested in Buddhist meditation but in a more laid back environment, I highly recommend the retreats at the Thich Nhat Hanh affiliated monasteries in the US (Deer Park in San Diego, Blue Cliff in NY). It's only a couple hours per day of sitting, interspersed with talks, small group discussions, and various other calm activities. Everything is basically optional since they don't take attendance, you could sit in your room all day if you wanted, but I found all of it rewarding. At the end they stressed that the purpose of all this mindfulness and sitting is to increase awareness and compassion within oneself, so that you can deepen relationships with everyone, Buddhist or not. The days usually started at 5:30 but they warned us not to try to recreate this schedule at home, "because it would just cause suffering." So they're totally not humorless ascetics. They also served some amazing vegan food.
aforty 11y ago
I have done several now and would highly recommend them to anyone who has the time (let's face it, ten days off is not exactly easy for some). My first experience is documented here: https://medium.com/mindfulness-and-meditation/into-the-subconscious-301bacb505ff https://medium.com/mindfulness-and-meditation/into-the-subco...
mheiler 11y ago
A while ago I did a Contemplation course where you do sitting & walking meditation for ~9h / day. The experience was very similar. It's fascinating when you look into spiritual practices of different religions: There is so much in common. E.g., when you read from Buddhist teachers vs. Catholic saints vs. modern mindfulness meditation. I strongly recommend to pick up one of these and experience them.
colinmegill 11y ago
I've done a 10 day - well worth it.
pajop 11y ago
minor erratum: "The effects of meditation and solitute" should be "The effects of meditation and solitude" :)
- mwidell 11y ago
  Author here. Thanks, fixed now!
  - njacooper 11y ago
    Also: "I was shaking. My arms where shaking." should be " I was shaking. My arms were shaking." Great article though!
rahoulb 11y ago
> Emotions and addictions start small, and get stronger as we feed them by reacting to them. If you want to stop a destructive emotion or an addiction, learn to notice it early and stay completely equanimous to it. I've just been doing a bit of reading on NLP and, underneath the jargon, one of the key ideas seems to be that emotional states have a physical location in your body - and if you can locate it then you can start to enhance or attenuate the emotion. This sounds pretty similar, although approaching it from a different direction.
- mwidell 11y ago
  Author here. This is very interesting, as it sounds very similar to how it was explained at the Vipassana camp. What is a good starting point to familiarise oneself with NLP?
  - elbear 11y ago
    The wikipedia page is a good start, as it gives you an overview of the concept. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuro-linguistic_programming https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuro-linguistic_programming
  - junto 11y ago
    A word of warning about NLP. Practitioners can be somewhat cultish. NLP is really about learning techniques to get people to do what you want then to do. Once they realise that you are doing that to them, they start to hate you for it. Once you have practised it for some time, you start to forget that you are doing it. Before long people hate you and you don't even know why. Imagine being able to hypnotise people using words to get them to do things that they might not really want to do. That's NLP. It's not sold like that though. It's sold as a way to empower yourself. Unfortunately, it is on other people's behalves.
kriro 11y ago
I've heard about this before and the people were usually happy. However it sounded pretty culty from descriptions. Trying to convince people that your way is the only way sounds like you don't understand Buddhism at all (I don't understand it either just on a very superficial level). I also hear quite a few "I felt more productive, less stressed out" etc. remarks. I wonder if 10 days of relaxing on a beach wouldn't have a similar effect. Has anyone done scientific studies on this? I remember a study on meditation being positively correlated to learning but am not sure if I remember correctly.
- k-mcgrady 11y ago
  >> "I also hear quite a few "I felt more productive, less stressed out" etc. remarks. I wonder if 10 days of relaxing on a beach wouldn't have a similar effect." I've never been to one of these retreats but for a while I meditated twice daily, morning and evening for 15 minutes. I only did it for about 2-3 months. I had a similar effect while I maintained it. Not so much with productivity but I was definitely less stressed. So although I'm sure 10 days relaxing anywhere will help with stress, short daily sessions seem to have the same effect.
- mvanvoorden 11y ago
  It's definitely not the same as relaxing on a beach for 10 days. Not even closely similar. Yes, you might be more relaxed, but this meditation is hard work and really disciplines your mind, something you won't be doing on a beach. As far as you are even aware of how active the mind is all day long, the beach will be full of distractions and you would take any opportunity to avoid any uncomfortable situations as well as take any opportunity to do things that give you short, momentary pleasures. I noticed the culty part about it as well, but it makes sense to me, because it really works. The claim they make is really met and this convinces a lot of people that everybody should at least once in their life do such a retreat, including myself. There is the Vipassana Research Institute, but their website disappoints me a bit, because the amount of links that is actual research is quite meagre. There are some good results with Vipassana in prisons, though. See http://www.vridhamma.org/Home.aspx http://www.vridhamma.org/Home.aspx
- ared38 11y ago
dschiptsov 11y ago
The Buddha went to a solitude retreat to conquer and master his "mind", not to some for profit "meditation center". Solitude is what is required for deep introspection and realizations which lead to permanent transformations in the environmentaly and socially conditioned "model of the universe" each person is used to build and maintain through lifetime. BTW, what makes you being so sure that all the readers of HN required to become aware of your narcissistic tendencies - you made a username to post a link to your personal site with a description of how special you believe you are?
- mvanvoorden 11y ago
  There nothing for-profit about Vipassana. Mr Goenka set up the centers after he was profoundly helped by the practice. No money is asked, and donating either time or money can only be done after completing a course, when you sincerely feel that you want to pay it forward for a next student.
  - dschiptsov 11y ago
    Of course. Retreats are public as shrines in India (which, btw, is an illusion, because the land belongs to someone - there is no unclaimed land in India) and no one is making living by running these retreats.
    - vinceguidry 11y ago
      You don't seem to understand what 'profit' is. Profit is what you have left after you pay the people that the land belongs to, and the expenses of the people organizing and running the operations.
      - dschiptsov 11y ago
        Oh, come on. Have you never seen a "charity" guys who just cover their expenses, which include luxury gadgets, top-branded clothing, liquors, taxi rides and four square meals a day? Welcome to Nepal, then (or any other place in the World). And don't tell me, please, that meditation centers are any different. It is a business. Period.
sridca 11y ago
I did three retreats, and my experience is that Vipassana -- and meditation practices in general -- induces extreme forms of dissociation, and as such not a reliable to way to deal with emotions in the real world.
- poelzi 11y ago
  I did 14 over the last 13 years and dissociation in a bad way is something this technique does not, not in a bad way. There are different forms of dissociation: one where your body becomes alien, there is one, where your ego is not associated with the feelings, etc... There is a dissociational element in vipassana, but it is that your ego does not associate pain with suffering or fine sensations with lust. What I experienced in me and I see it in others as well, is that they deal with the real world much intensified. Of course, you distance yourself in the retreat, but this is for self improvement, as sometimes you need a time out to really look deep inside, calm your mind so it is sensitive enough.
  - sridca 11y ago
    Essentially you are saying the same thing as me. A Vipassana meditator dissociates from their emotions while identifying with the physical sensations (whereas what is generally called as the ego/soul/self is, at core, the emotions themselves). Retreats acutely develop this process, but the effects are felt throughout one's daily life. Your saying "the real world much intensified" is the effect of this process of identifying with the physical sensations (hence "intensified") while tacitly dissociating from the associated emotions. While dissociation is one way to cope with emotions, it is not a reliable to way to deal with them in the real world.
    - alimw 11y ago
      You seem to be saying that meditation is not a reliable way to hang on to your ego. That should go without saying.
      - mvanvoorden 11y ago
codeshaman 11y ago
I did it 10 years ago. I left on day 7. Overall, I'd say the experience was very interesting and unique. When I managed to sit in the same position for an hour - I was ecstatic. I was also sweating profoundly and the pain was unbearable, yet I managed to just examine it, feel it, accept it. I also remember having nightmares involving the meditation center - I clearly remember dreaming that building burning with huge flames and I was happy about it. It was a very vivid, colorful dream. My mind wanted to escape. But then the most difficult part came. My wife was also in the group and we started being sexually attracted to each other starting with day 5 or so. The inability to speak and even look at each other added to the sparks of desire that have been growing for 5 days of meditation, silence and abstinence. By day 7 the attraction became electric - just a glimpse of her eyes revealed that she was feeling the same way - we were both fighting the sexual force ... Dreams became sexual... We both fought the desire, but eventually we lost the battle - we ran away and had sex. Although nobody has seen us, we felt like we cheated and we couldn't continue the course. So we told the teacher that we can't stay anymore and she mentioned that usually they try to avoid married couples in the same course because of the sexual thing. Another reason for bailing on day 7 was the feeling that I was being brainwashed into accepting this new religion/sect/whatever. The helpers definitely behaved very cultish and I didn't want to become like them - I had a startup to run. So my mind had this powerful argument - "we're being brainwashed, we have to escape". Anyway, overall it was interesting, even though I haven't achieved whatever I had to achieve on day 10, I think I learned a great deal of lessons about myself, about weakness, desire, love, etc. If you have 10 days, go do it.
derptacious 11y ago
A big thread with opinions about vipassana without the word samadhi... x_X
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

205 points by mwidell 11y ago

seren 11y ago

I find the experience interesting. However, I can't to help to think that a 10 days Vipassana session is kind of extreme, from checking your smartphone 100 times an hour to not speaking to anyone for 10 days. There are probably milder ways to experience better mindfulness and focus. And then somehow, I understand that in our daily lives it might be easier to commit to 10 days than having the fortitude to leave social media for a day. I also feel it tells something about our time when we want to have full and unadulterated experiences.

Alex3917 11y ago
> However, I can't to help to think that a 10 days Vipassana session is kind of extreme The theory is that that's sort of the minimum you need to get the full experience, in terms of the getting the point where there are significant psychological and physiological changes. I think it could probably be 8 or 9 days instead, but realistically things don't start getting interesting until day 6 or 7 and that's after doing it for 7 - 10 hours per day. I did it once and I'd like to do it again, but realistically it is pretty difficult to balance with other life commitments.
kup0 11y ago
It's possible that experiencing the extreme makes the "milder ways" much easier to make a habit. When you've just meditated for 11 hours a day for 10 days straight, 30 minutes a day seems like nothing. I think the retreats are often just a way to gain perspective or a "crash course" that you can then apply to your life once you leave.
- mbrock 11y ago
  FWIW, I've talked to plenty of people for whom this has been far from the case. They went to a 10 day retreat, some of them had blissful times or fascinating out-of-body experiences or whatever, but most of these people haven't ended up with a stable daily meditation practice. So right now I'm pretty skeptical about this hypothesis.
  - kup0 11y ago
    It's possible that's the case. It does take far more than 10 days of devoting your time to something to truly make it a habit, especially when experienced in such a different setting that will be nothing like home. My original post was just a thought/hypothesis presented without any data to back it up.
  - nzp 11y ago
    I don't know what you (they) meant by "blissful times", but "fascinating out-of-body" experiences doesn't sound right. It could be that they experienced something close to Jhana[0] but I'm skeptical it can be done on a 10 day Vipassana retreat with no previous experience. In all Buddhist traditions, excepting Tantric ones, that emphasize meditation, the techniques (Vipassana being one of them) are mostly really hard work in practicing concentration and attentiveness. It's very hard to get it right, essentially to practice hard without practicing hard, without attaching yourself even to the effort you're expanding, which then can lead to Jhanas. Most of the time, I think, people convince themselves they are experiencing fascinating things, but it's just the mind playing it's tricks. Especially in the West where people attach all sorts of wacky stuff to the term "meditation", which really isn't event the right translation of "samadhi" as it's borrowed from Christianity where "contemplation" is much better fitting as a Western analogue (other techniques from Tantric Buddhism, on the other hand fit the Western term "meditation" better). [0] http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sacca/sacca4/samma-samadhi/jhana.html http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sacca/sacca4/samma...
mvanvoorden 11y ago
Being without smartphone and no talking is the easiest part. At least for me, an ADHD IT nerd who checks his phone all day long, and very, very talkative personality. It was the best 10 days of my life, it felt quite liberating. And now my phone stays in my pocket most of the day, I talk a bit less, and I have no stress at my job at all, as I just do what I can and the rest is for tomorrow and after. Any milder way wouldn't have the same effect, you cannot train discipline by giving in to your mind all the time.
mbrock 11y ago
One milder way is to just start meditating daily. You can start with five minutes, or even one minute.

iss 11y ago

Respect! This has been on my bucket list for a while, but I haven't still found the courage to do it!

dorianm 11y ago

Great summary of his experience. While travelling I met several people who went to meditation retreats and they seemed to all have the insight of stopping to check their phone so often, or even stop having a smartphone. Also, because of that it's unlikely many of them read Hacker News or Medium so there is a selection biais as to who is talking about those meditation retreats.

RikNieu 11y ago

I'd love to run a retreat center like this. I'd augment it with a scientifically-backed nutritional plan, have floatation tanks available, and spend a bit more time helping visitors make sense of what they're experiencing and how to proceed. And definitely, definitely manage expectations better than most of these places. Most of the cultish vibes and/or disappointments that can emerge from these kind of retreats are because people are prone to hyperbole when they spend some time on activities so completely out of their frame of reference.

beagle3 11y ago
> a scientifically-backed nutritional plan, That would be refreshing, because almost none are. What did you have in mind?
- puredemo 11y ago
  Nothing but Soylent drinks and Slow-cooked BBQ
  - kweinber 11y ago
    ... and beano.
  - RikNieu 11y ago
    Consumed separately, I would hope...
- RikNieu 11y ago
  Haven't put too much thought in it, too be honest, as it's mostly a pie-in-the-sky dream at the moment. But I'd probably sit down(with some other, more knowledgable folks) and consider things like vit D3, omega 3, magnesium and zinc supplementation, microbiome stimulation, possible ketosis for those who react positively to it,and a general elimination of unnecessary sugars. Hydration, maybe surprisingly, would be a major component as well. Another one would be breathing exercises, stretches and light exercise(to encourage serotonin and hormonal stimulation), all of which can be combined with meditative practices ala yoga or taijiquan. On the extreme side, for those who are especially adventurous, I'd even consider sessions with nootropics, and possible micro-dosing with psilocybin or DMT - where legally permitted. This would absolutely be done with the involvement of medical professionals, I should add.

ilostmykeys 11y ago

Hmm. I wonder what kind of person I'd be if I had the privelege and luxury to be by myself without having to talk to anyone or be a slave to mt phone, for ten damn days. Imagine! I want to go to there!

jmspring 11y ago
I went to a retreat at Tassajara Zen Center recently. If I didn't have obligations (wife, house, bills), spending time in a place meditating and focusing inward would be a wonderful experience. In this case they are more a Japanese style of Zen Buddhism... Quite stark and austere.
- endlessvoid94 11y ago
  I would love to know more about the retreat you did, if you'd be willing to share. That seems a lot more accessible to me, since I'm in the bay area.
  - jmspring 11y ago
    See reply below for what I did. There are formal retreats during the late spring to early fall. There is a retreat fee and different sorts of lodging prices (from shared dorms to private cabins on the creek). Some people just go to work and stay there at a reduced to minimal cost (typical work could be anything from landscaping to the kitchen to helping clean cabins). This sort of approach one stays in one of the dorms. What was surprising to me is the number of people there. Monks/students probably between 80 and 100 with guests in the same range. Tassajara Zen Center website has more details I believe. There are two other properties as well (in SF and in Marin County). http://sfzc.org http://sfzc.org
    - endlessvoid94 11y ago
      thanks!
- randycupertino 11y ago

semerda 11y ago

Nice write up! Thanks for sharing. I attended a similar retreat in Australia and it's definitely a nice way to decompress and reflect. However trying to bring it into everyday habit/life is a lot harder. In the end I found that isolation tanks/floatation filled that need perfectly. My write up here: http://www.theroadtosiliconvalley.com/local-california/floatation-tank-isolation-tanks/ http://www.theroadtosiliconvalley.com/local-california/float... Have you tried floatation?

wdrw 11y ago

I did a Vipassana retreat a few years ago. Definitely an incredible experience, and I could see directly measurable positive effects on my thinking, on how I made decisions, etc. afterwards (although the effect does wear off after a while if you don't keep meditating regularly). However, I feel I must mention some negatives as well. First, the course emphasizes many times that it is purely secular, but towards the end it slides into the more religious aspects of Buddhism (reincarnation and even some explicitly anti-scientific ideas). I feel that this can turn off a lot of the more analytically-minded/secular/atheist people, which is a real shame because Vipassana still makes a lot of sense without these religious aspects. Secondly, towards the end of the course there's real pressure in the lectures to accept Vipassana as the "one true way" to meditate, and I got a little bit of a cult-ish vibe from some of the returning students and especially from the volunteers. Not to the degree that it's going to be a problem for most people, but I can see how a small minority of "brainwash-susceptible" individuals, especially in a vulnerable stage in life, may throw themselves 100% into Vipassana after a retreat, instead of critically thinking about this powerful experience afterwards. So my advice: definitely do it if you can, take it seriously and give it your 100%, but don't turn off your critical thinking skills during the lectures or after the retreat. If you can do it, there's lots to gain.

mmohebbi 11y ago
Yes- nice to see I'm not the only one who felt this way! It's an amazing experience but some of the cultish aspects bothered me as well. I understand that they want you to focus on the Vipassana way of meditating during the retreat but pushing it as the "one true way" felt contradictory.
- deleted 11y ago
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shockzzz 11y ago
I can't stand people who say Buddhism is not a religion. In many, many, MANY ways Christianity is as much a philosophy as Buddhism is. People also don't realize that Buddhism in the West is specifically catered to Westerners who are sick of the dogma of the Abrahamic religions. Ironically, Buddhism is filled with the same dogma, but it's hidden in the West until you buy into it. I can't imagine it's entirely different from how Christian missionaries approach developing countries. Not saying that Buddhism is "bad" - not at all. But it is in no way as secular, or as peaceful, as Westerners think it is. It has a long and torrid history of violence, as well as dogma. I just wish people recognized Buddhism for what it is - a religion.

shobhitverma 11y ago

This November was my sixth 10 day Vipassana course (first was 12 years ago). I achieved momentary clarity on the 8th day which helped me get rid of some of unnecessary but deep rooted complexes of my mind. I believe that it was possible only because of the continued practice and focus of the past 7 days. If it were two courses of 4 days each with some gap in between, I do not think I would be able to experience what I did. In other words, I feel that my brain needed the 10 consecutive days.

pc86 11y ago
> I achieved momentary clarity on the 8th day which helped me get rid of some of unnecessary but deep rooted complexes of my mind. Can someone with experience in meditation explain what this actually means?
- mvanvoorden 11y ago
  During meditation, one can experience moments of such clarity of mind, that the answers to difficult or deep rooted issues suddenly show up in front of you. Usually it turns out the solution is so simple, that they wonder why they've never seen it before, and now they cannot unsee it. Like an epiphany.
- patrickmay 11y ago
  For me it means that I was able to look objectively at some of my ways of thinking and feeling and realize that I didn't have to do it that way. I was able to let go of the attachment to doing so and change my own reaction to things. In the tradition I follow this is called "finding the listener".
patrickmay 11y ago
I did a 10 day workshop with Jelle Bode last February and found the same thing. The combination of active and passive meditation, silence except for answering the question "Tell me who you are.", no alcohol or caffeine, and no outside contact really works if you give it the time. My personal clarity occurred in the afternoon of the seventh day. I wonder if that timing is similar for everyone.

kevin_thibedeau 11y ago

I'm really getting tired of "st" ligatures in sans-serif fonts. Who came up with this horrible idea?

nether 11y ago

If you're interested in Buddhist meditation but in a more laid back environment, I highly recommend the retreats at the Thich Nhat Hanh affiliated monasteries in the US (Deer Park in San Diego, Blue Cliff in NY). It's only a couple hours per day of sitting, interspersed with talks, small group discussions, and various other calm activities. Everything is basically optional since they don't take attendance, you could sit in your room all day if you wanted, but I found all of it rewarding. At the end they stressed that the purpose of all this mindfulness and sitting is to increase awareness and compassion within oneself, so that you can deepen relationships with everyone, Buddhist or not. The days usually started at 5:30 but they warned us not to try to recreate this schedule at home, "because it would just cause suffering." So they're totally not humorless ascetics. They also served some amazing vegan food.

aforty 11y ago

I have done several now and would highly recommend them to anyone who has the time (let's face it, ten days off is not exactly easy for some). My first experience is documented here: https://medium.com/mindfulness-and-meditation/into-the-subconscious-301bacb505ff https://medium.com/mindfulness-and-meditation/into-the-subco...

mheiler 11y ago

A while ago I did a Contemplation course where you do sitting & walking meditation for ~9h / day. The experience was very similar. It's fascinating when you look into spiritual practices of different religions: There is so much in common. E.g., when you read from Buddhist teachers vs. Catholic saints vs. modern mindfulness meditation. I strongly recommend to pick up one of these and experience them.

colinmegill 11y ago

I've done a 10 day - well worth it.

pajop 11y ago

minor erratum: "The effects of meditation and solitute" should be "The effects of meditation and solitude" :)

mwidell 11y ago
Author here. Thanks, fixed now!
- njacooper 11y ago
  Also: "I was shaking. My arms where shaking." should be " I was shaking. My arms were shaking." Great article though!

rahoulb 11y ago

> Emotions and addictions start small, and get stronger as we feed them by reacting to them. If you want to stop a destructive emotion or an addiction, learn to notice it early and stay completely equanimous to it. I've just been doing a bit of reading on NLP and, underneath the jargon, one of the key ideas seems to be that emotional states have a physical location in your body - and if you can locate it then you can start to enhance or attenuate the emotion. This sounds pretty similar, although approaching it from a different direction.

mwidell 11y ago
Author here. This is very interesting, as it sounds very similar to how it was explained at the Vipassana camp. What is a good starting point to familiarise oneself with NLP?
- elbear 11y ago
  The wikipedia page is a good start, as it gives you an overview of the concept. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuro-linguistic_programming https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuro-linguistic_programming
- junto 11y ago
  A word of warning about NLP. Practitioners can be somewhat cultish. NLP is really about learning techniques to get people to do what you want then to do. Once they realise that you are doing that to them, they start to hate you for it. Once you have practised it for some time, you start to forget that you are doing it. Before long people hate you and you don't even know why. Imagine being able to hypnotise people using words to get them to do things that they might not really want to do. That's NLP. It's not sold like that though. It's sold as a way to empower yourself. Unfortunately, it is on other people's behalves.

kriro 11y ago

I've heard about this before and the people were usually happy. However it sounded pretty culty from descriptions. Trying to convince people that your way is the only way sounds like you don't understand Buddhism at all (I don't understand it either just on a very superficial level). I also hear quite a few "I felt more productive, less stressed out" etc. remarks. I wonder if 10 days of relaxing on a beach wouldn't have a similar effect. Has anyone done scientific studies on this? I remember a study on meditation being positively correlated to learning but am not sure if I remember correctly.

k-mcgrady 11y ago
>> "I also hear quite a few "I felt more productive, less stressed out" etc. remarks. I wonder if 10 days of relaxing on a beach wouldn't have a similar effect." I've never been to one of these retreats but for a while I meditated twice daily, morning and evening for 15 minutes. I only did it for about 2-3 months. I had a similar effect while I maintained it. Not so much with productivity but I was definitely less stressed. So although I'm sure 10 days relaxing anywhere will help with stress, short daily sessions seem to have the same effect.
mvanvoorden 11y ago
It's definitely not the same as relaxing on a beach for 10 days. Not even closely similar. Yes, you might be more relaxed, but this meditation is hard work and really disciplines your mind, something you won't be doing on a beach. As far as you are even aware of how active the mind is all day long, the beach will be full of distractions and you would take any opportunity to avoid any uncomfortable situations as well as take any opportunity to do things that give you short, momentary pleasures. I noticed the culty part about it as well, but it makes sense to me, because it really works. The claim they make is really met and this convinces a lot of people that everybody should at least once in their life do such a retreat, including myself. There is the Vipassana Research Institute, but their website disappoints me a bit, because the amount of links that is actual research is quite meagre. There are some good results with Vipassana in prisons, though. See http://www.vridhamma.org/Home.aspx http://www.vridhamma.org/Home.aspx
ared38 11y ago

dschiptsov 11y ago

The Buddha went to a solitude retreat to conquer and master his "mind", not to some for profit "meditation center". Solitude is what is required for deep introspection and realizations which lead to permanent transformations in the environmentaly and socially conditioned "model of the universe" each person is used to build and maintain through lifetime. BTW, what makes you being so sure that all the readers of HN required to become aware of your narcissistic tendencies - you made a username to post a link to your personal site with a description of how special you believe you are?

mvanvoorden 11y ago
There nothing for-profit about Vipassana. Mr Goenka set up the centers after he was profoundly helped by the practice. No money is asked, and donating either time or money can only be done after completing a course, when you sincerely feel that you want to pay it forward for a next student.
- dschiptsov 11y ago
  Of course. Retreats are public as shrines in India (which, btw, is an illusion, because the land belongs to someone - there is no unclaimed land in India) and no one is making living by running these retreats.
  - vinceguidry 11y ago
    You don't seem to understand what 'profit' is. Profit is what you have left after you pay the people that the land belongs to, and the expenses of the people organizing and running the operations.
    - dschiptsov 11y ago
      Oh, come on. Have you never seen a "charity" guys who just cover their expenses, which include luxury gadgets, top-branded clothing, liquors, taxi rides and four square meals a day? Welcome to Nepal, then (or any other place in the World). And don't tell me, please, that meditation centers are any different. It is a business. Period.

sridca 11y ago

I did three retreats, and my experience is that Vipassana -- and meditation practices in general -- induces extreme forms of dissociation, and as such not a reliable to way to deal with emotions in the real world.

poelzi 11y ago
I did 14 over the last 13 years and dissociation in a bad way is something this technique does not, not in a bad way. There are different forms of dissociation: one where your body becomes alien, there is one, where your ego is not associated with the feelings, etc... There is a dissociational element in vipassana, but it is that your ego does not associate pain with suffering or fine sensations with lust. What I experienced in me and I see it in others as well, is that they deal with the real world much intensified. Of course, you distance yourself in the retreat, but this is for self improvement, as sometimes you need a time out to really look deep inside, calm your mind so it is sensitive enough.
- sridca 11y ago
  Essentially you are saying the same thing as me. A Vipassana meditator dissociates from their emotions while identifying with the physical sensations (whereas what is generally called as the ego/soul/self is, at core, the emotions themselves). Retreats acutely develop this process, but the effects are felt throughout one's daily life. Your saying "the real world much intensified" is the effect of this process of identifying with the physical sensations (hence "intensified") while tacitly dissociating from the associated emotions. While dissociation is one way to cope with emotions, it is not a reliable to way to deal with them in the real world.
  - alimw 11y ago
    You seem to be saying that meditation is not a reliable way to hang on to your ego. That should go without saying.
    - mvanvoorden 11y ago

codeshaman 11y ago

I did it 10 years ago. I left on day 7. Overall, I'd say the experience was very interesting and unique. When I managed to sit in the same position for an hour - I was ecstatic. I was also sweating profoundly and the pain was unbearable, yet I managed to just examine it, feel it, accept it. I also remember having nightmares involving the meditation center - I clearly remember dreaming that building burning with huge flames and I was happy about it. It was a very vivid, colorful dream. My mind wanted to escape. But then the most difficult part came. My wife was also in the group and we started being sexually attracted to each other starting with day 5 or so. The inability to speak and even look at each other added to the sparks of desire that have been growing for 5 days of meditation, silence and abstinence. By day 7 the attraction became electric - just a glimpse of her eyes revealed that she was feeling the same way - we were both fighting the sexual force ... Dreams became sexual... We both fought the desire, but eventually we lost the battle - we ran away and had sex. Although nobody has seen us, we felt like we cheated and we couldn't continue the course. So we told the teacher that we can't stay anymore and she mentioned that usually they try to avoid married couples in the same course because of the sexual thing. Another reason for bailing on day 7 was the feeling that I was being brainwashed into accepting this new religion/sect/whatever. The helpers definitely behaved very cultish and I didn't want to become like them - I had a startup to run. So my mind had this powerful argument - "we're being brainwashed, we have to escape". Anyway, overall it was interesting, even though I haven't achieved whatever I had to achieve on day 10, I think I learned a great deal of lessons about myself, about weakness, desire, love, etc. If you have 10 days, go do it.

derptacious 11y ago

A big thread with opinions about vipassana without the word samadhi... x_X

deleted 11y ago

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