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Exactly why is that more likely? When you're in hospital, would you say the same thing to your doctor? Why would a trained political scientist / economist not k

Exactly why is that more likely? When you're in hospital, would you say the same thing to your doctor? Why would a trained political scientist / economist not know what's good for you - within the domain of their expertise? I'm not saying you'd be wrong in most cases (plenty horrible politicians about), but I don't see convincing logic in your point.

waterlesscloud 17y ago
Despite what the technocratic classes may think, political "science" and economics are nowhere near medicine in terms of understanding what is best for someone. Economics in particular is terrible at correctly understanding how people place value on their courses of action.
- kiba 17y ago
  The job of an economist is to make fools of the technocrat. The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design. -- F.A. Hayek, The Fatal Conceit
- yungchin 17y ago
  That's all very true, I agree. But my point wasn't that they're good at what they do; my point was that they may still be better at it than we are for ourselves. You wrote "If you disagree with me about what's in my best interest, it's far more likely that you're wrong than it is that I'm wrong" - and it's not obvious to me that that is more likely.
Zak 17y ago
When you're in hospital, would you say the same thing to your doctor? I might. About 200,000 people a year die in the US from preventable medical errors[0]. I've had a number of experiences[1] where I found important medical information that doctors missed. Part of the reason is that when I or a close friend is ill, I put a lot more time and effort in to researching that specific case than a doctor would. [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_malpractice#Statistics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_malpractice#Statistics [1] I know anecdotes don't serve as evidence for a trend
anamax 17y ago
> Why would a trained political scientist / economist not know what's good for you - within the domain of their expertise? Because they don't know my values. Every time I read one of the "people don't act in their self interest" research reports, I see that the folks doing the research don't understand their subjects' self-interests or don't understand how what their subjects are doing serves that self-interest better than what the researcher posits as the "correct response". I don't know if it's their training or self-selection that produces such results. Since you disagree, how about providing a list of specific experts in political science or economics who you'd let run your life. Better yet, which politicians would you let control your life? Names, please, not affiliations.
- yungchin 17y ago
  > Since you disagree, how about providing a list of specific experts in political science or economics who you'd let run your life. Better yet, which politicians would you let control your life? If you put it that way, the answer is, of course, nobody. But in putting it that way, we'd be shifting the discussion away from the original point. Now we're suddenly talking about "people running our lives for us", about our freedom. Respectfully, I would suggest that's a rhetorical trick. I'm not an American, but I would have certainly trusted president Obama with the healthcare reform job. I'm not saying that I know he's right, I'm saying that I would trust him to make better decisions on it than I would make. Better for me, too. Would I let him run my life for me? I do hope that that is obviously a totally different question. (edit: note that I never said I disagreed - the "I know what's good for me" sentiment actually does very much resonate with my instincts, too. But that doesn't make it true... and so I think it's not useful as an objection here)
cry_me_a_river 17y ago
Looks like the young ones are going to have to repeat history. What is in your "best interest" is entirely subjective. Joe likes sausage and Peter likes pickles, so you solve a massive linear programming problem and you deliver them grapefruit. The idea that any person or system outside of yourself can objectively determine what is in your best interest is impossible. Even in defined settings, like healthcare, a good physician will give you a range of options. Maybe you'll opt for the transplant because you want to see your son graduate; or, maybe you won't because you cannot stomach being on immunosuppressants for the rest of your life.

waterlesscloud 17y ago

Despite what the technocratic classes may think, political "science" and economics are nowhere near medicine in terms of understanding what is best for someone. Economics in particular is terrible at correctly understanding how people place value on their courses of action.

kiba 17y ago
The job of an economist is to make fools of the technocrat. The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design. -- F.A. Hayek, The Fatal Conceit
yungchin 17y ago
That's all very true, I agree. But my point wasn't that they're good at what they do; my point was that they may still be better at it than we are for ourselves. You wrote "If you disagree with me about what's in my best interest, it's far more likely that you're wrong than it is that I'm wrong" - and it's not obvious to me that that is more likely.

Zak 17y ago

When you're in hospital, would you say the same thing to your doctor? I might. About 200,000 people a year die in the US from preventable medical errors[0]. I've had a number of experiences[1] where I found important medical information that doctors missed. Part of the reason is that when I or a close friend is ill, I put a lot more time and effort in to researching that specific case than a doctor would. [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_malpractice#Statistics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_malpractice#Statistics [1] I know anecdotes don't serve as evidence for a trend

anamax 17y ago

> Why would a trained political scientist / economist not know what's good for you - within the domain of their expertise? Because they don't know my values. Every time I read one of the "people don't act in their self interest" research reports, I see that the folks doing the research don't understand their subjects' self-interests or don't understand how what their subjects are doing serves that self-interest better than what the researcher posits as the "correct response". I don't know if it's their training or self-selection that produces such results. Since you disagree, how about providing a list of specific experts in political science or economics who you'd let run your life. Better yet, which politicians would you let control your life? Names, please, not affiliations.

yungchin 17y ago
> Since you disagree, how about providing a list of specific experts in political science or economics who you'd let run your life. Better yet, which politicians would you let control your life? If you put it that way, the answer is, of course, nobody. But in putting it that way, we'd be shifting the discussion away from the original point. Now we're suddenly talking about "people running our lives for us", about our freedom. Respectfully, I would suggest that's a rhetorical trick. I'm not an American, but I would have certainly trusted president Obama with the healthcare reform job. I'm not saying that I know he's right, I'm saying that I would trust him to make better decisions on it than I would make. Better for me, too. Would I let him run my life for me? I do hope that that is obviously a totally different question. (edit: note that I never said I disagreed - the "I know what's good for me" sentiment actually does very much resonate with my instincts, too. But that doesn't make it true... and so I think it's not useful as an objection here)

cry_me_a_river 17y ago

Looks like the young ones are going to have to repeat history. What is in your "best interest" is entirely subjective. Joe likes sausage and Peter likes pickles, so you solve a massive linear programming problem and you deliver them grapefruit. The idea that any person or system outside of yourself can objectively determine what is in your best interest is impossible. Even in defined settings, like healthcare, a good physician will give you a range of options. Maybe you'll opt for the transplant because you want to see your son graduate; or, maybe you won't because you cannot stomach being on immunosuppressants for the rest of your life.