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Eclipse and dependencies handling are hard problems. It works if everything is set up perfectly, but Eclipse is super brittle, and all the plugins make bad assu

by csours 11y ago

Eclipse and dependencies handling are hard problems. It works if everything is set up perfectly, but Eclipse is super brittle, and all the plugins make bad assumptions about Eclipse and other Eclipse plugins.

bpchaps 11y ago
Thank you. This is my main reason why giving up on eclipse shortly in. There's something to be said when your application can't handle small failures. (Looking at you, too, visual studio)
pimlottc 11y ago
I agree, fortunately there are convenient pre-packaged Eclipse bundles like Spring Tool Suite [0] that include a curated set of plugins for common development scenarios. This may mean you end up with multiple Eclipse installations but it's easier than trying to maintain dozens and dozens of plugins within a single installation. 0: https://spring.io/tools https://spring.io/tools
bsder 11y ago
> Eclipse and dependencies handling are hard problems. It works if everything is set up perfectly, but Eclipse is super brittle I agree. If that is the problem, I will happily walk the student through the setup--even at any point in the semester. If a computer craps out, I will help the student recover from the repository--I don't expect them to be able to do that. It does also happen, rarely, that I have to actually help a student set up their computer because they have some weird issue. I do not consider failing at setting up your environment to be a failure of the class. Schedule some time with me and we'll go through it together. HOWEVER, this is generally not the problem, oddly. They get that set up pretty much fine. The first problem is: System.out.println("Hello, World!"); I WARN people over and over. I am automated testing this. Computer output must be EXACT. The comma, space, capitalization, and exclamation point ARE NOT OPTIONAL. Debugging is about noticing details, and if you can't match this, you're not going to find the actually subtle bugs later in your own code. Really, this is the only functional line in the program--I'm not joking about this. The second problem is: "But I didn't know I could check this before the assignment date." Um, I have a website set up for the class--did you check it for the past two weeks that it has been running? I have pointed this page out and put it on screen at both beginning and end of class for the past 4 lectures. The anonymized login ID's have a Red X for a failure and a Green + for success. I also have the intensity modulated properly so that those who are red/green color blind are able to tell as well. I have just learned that I'm going to have to politely smile at all the excuses and whining after that first assignment and tell people repeatedly that I'm not budging on this. After the first couple of students, the rest get the message.
- digi_owl 11y ago
  > The first problem is: System.out.println("Hello, World!"); Heh, you are basically battling a lifetime of built up muscle memory when it comes to that.
- csours 11y ago
  I wonder if your students are new enough at programming that they don't understand what exact matching means? Even if you verbally say "exact match" they may not have enough context to realize that means character by character examination. We've done programming long enough that this is ingrained to a very deep degree, but for them, it still looks like english. Anecdote: I had a college instructor who thought it was reasonable to write a TCP-IP program from scratch without reference using Winsock2. I'm sure he could do it, and I could probably do it now, but as a student, not so much.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

by csours 11y ago

bpchaps 11y ago

Thank you. This is my main reason why giving up on eclipse shortly in. There's something to be said when your application can't handle small failures. (Looking at you, too, visual studio)

pimlottc 11y ago

I agree, fortunately there are convenient pre-packaged Eclipse bundles like Spring Tool Suite [0] that include a curated set of plugins for common development scenarios. This may mean you end up with multiple Eclipse installations but it's easier than trying to maintain dozens and dozens of plugins within a single installation. 0: https://spring.io/tools https://spring.io/tools

bsder 11y ago

> Eclipse and dependencies handling are hard problems. It works if everything is set up perfectly, but Eclipse is super brittle I agree. If that is the problem, I will happily walk the student through the setup--even at any point in the semester. If a computer craps out, I will help the student recover from the repository--I don't expect them to be able to do that. It does also happen, rarely, that I have to actually help a student set up their computer because they have some weird issue. I do not consider failing at setting up your environment to be a failure of the class. Schedule some time with me and we'll go through it together. HOWEVER, this is generally not the problem, oddly. They get that set up pretty much fine. The first problem is: System.out.println("Hello, World!"); I WARN people over and over. I am automated testing this. Computer output must be EXACT. The comma, space, capitalization, and exclamation point ARE NOT OPTIONAL. Debugging is about noticing details, and if you can't match this, you're not going to find the actually subtle bugs later in your own code. Really, this is the only functional line in the program--I'm not joking about this. The second problem is: "But I didn't know I could check this before the assignment date." Um, I have a website set up for the class--did you check it for the past two weeks that it has been running? I have pointed this page out and put it on screen at both beginning and end of class for the past 4 lectures. The anonymized login ID's have a Red X for a failure and a Green + for success. I also have the intensity modulated properly so that those who are red/green color blind are able to tell as well. I have just learned that I'm going to have to politely smile at all the excuses and whining after that first assignment and tell people repeatedly that I'm not budging on this. After the first couple of students, the rest get the message.

digi_owl 11y ago
> The first problem is: System.out.println("Hello, World!"); Heh, you are basically battling a lifetime of built up muscle memory when it comes to that.
csours 11y ago
I wonder if your students are new enough at programming that they don't understand what exact matching means? Even if you verbally say "exact match" they may not have enough context to realize that means character by character examination. We've done programming long enough that this is ingrained to a very deep degree, but for them, it still looks like english. Anecdote: I had a college instructor who thought it was reasonable to write a TCP-IP program from scratch without reference using Winsock2. I'm sure he could do it, and I could probably do it now, but as a student, not so much.

deleted 11y ago

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