5 ms·

why drop bower support damn it!

by painisRelative 11y ago

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
- theodorton 11y ago
  I think he actually talks about the bower package registry (not browser).
- jewel 11y ago
  No, he has an objection to them dropping support for "bower", which is a package manager for javascript files. It does seem like a typo of "browser", so I can see where the confusion would come from.
  - xxpor 11y ago
    Ha whoops! Thanks
  - brianzelip 11y ago
    bower is not just js, but rather lots of various front-end libraries.
    - Killswitch 11y ago
      Bower doesn't do anything npm doesn't already do, except horrible version management. bower install lodash => bower_components/lodash/dist/lodash.min.js npm install lodash => node_modules/lodash/dist/lodash.min.js Only difference there is you use `node_modules` instead of `bower_components` for root directory.
      - endemic 11y ago
        Easier to import as a module if you use Browserify or suchlike: `var _ = require('lodash');`
mrharrison 11y ago
Yeah there is no need to drop bower support. I prefer bower over NPM. I don't understand this. Great work by the way.
- mkoryak 11y ago
  I think the thinking behind dropping the support is something like this: I use browserify/webpack/node and npm is great. I wish more libs that I use were also on npm so that I wouldnt have to fork/shim them. How can I force other people to use npm? Maybe if I drop bower support for my awesome lib that everyone uses, other libs will follow suit, or perhaps the users will see the light and stop using bower because it sucks.
dannynemer 11y ago
Lodash dropped bower support in favor of npm because "16% use bower vs. 76% npm for AMD packages": https://twitter.com/jdalton/status/677323442488672257 https://twitter.com/jdalton/status/677323442488672257
- magicalist 11y ago
  ...according to a twitter poll on a personal account :P I avoid bower wherever possible, but removing support does smell a bit like an activist move. There may be more to the story, though.
  - cwyers 11y ago
    The poll was, should it be dropped, given that fact. The fact was not the poll result.
- bryanlarsen 11y ago
  Given that there were 14825158 downloads of lodash from npm last month, that implies that there were over 3M downloads from bower. That's a lot of people to throw under the bus.
  - andrewchilds 11y ago
    For what was a single 19 line JSON file: https://github.com/lodash/lodash/commit/3b86574b4da0828f6afb4d07b8320c27c56a98f9 https://github.com/lodash/lodash/commit/3b86574b4da0828f6afb...
  - jdd 11y ago
    According to bower stats over the last 7 days lodash was installed 23 times compared to 4 million npm downloads & 181 new npm packages depending on it. http://bower.io/stats/ http://bower.io/stats/ http://npm-stat.com/charts.html?package=lodash http://npm-stat.com/charts.html?package=lodash https://gist.github.com/anvaka/8e8fa57c7ee1350e3491/revisions https://gist.github.com/anvaka/8e8fa57c7ee1350e3491/revision...
hyperhopper 11y ago
If more major libraries drop support for bower, it might (hopefully) die soon. What does bower do better than NPM?
- javajosh 11y ago
  Well, I haven't used npm for css packages yet, but presumably it's okay with webpack/brunch etc.
  - cnp 11y ago
    Its great with everything. Frontend / backend, etc. When I removed bower from our app last year, adopted Webpack and migrated everything over to NPM it dramatically simplified things.
  - RobertKerans 11y ago
    For Brunch, looks like [initial, probably v buggy] NPM stuff went into master about 10 days ago.
    - javajosh 11y ago
      I've been using npm support in Brunch and so far so good.
      - RobertKerans 11y ago
        Ah, that's good to know; I'd been sticking to Bower for Phoenix' front end stuff, might start looking at migrating them to NPM if Brunch support is stable now.
- EvanPlaice 11y ago
  JSPM! It works a lot like NPM but is specifically intended for use with front-end modules. Features: - uses System.js (a polyfill for the future ES6-module-loader spec - supports CommonJS, AMD, and UMD formats - has plugins for importing other types (ex css) - support Typescript/Traceur/Babel out of the box - uses a flat dependency structure (ie like NPM v3) - can generate bundles and self-executing bundles (incl tree shaking and minify) - tracks specific versions of dependencies Unlike NPM, module installation doesn't depend on packages published to a central registry. It can install versioned modules directly from GitHub and NPM. The registry it uses is nothing but GitHub repo with module-to-repo mappings and compatibility shims. Here's the link: http://jspm.io/ http://jspm.io/ Lodash is already included in the registry: http://kasperlewau.github.io/registry/#/?q=lodash http://kasperlewau.github.io/registry/#/?q=lodash
timdorr 11y ago
Bower is no longer actively maintained: https://github.com/bower/bower/pull/1748 https://github.com/bower/bower/pull/1748
- janpieterz 11y ago
  Bower is very actively being maintained: http://bower.io/blog/2015/bower-alive-looking-contributors/ http://bower.io/blog/2015/bower-alive-looking-contributors/ and just read https://twitter.com/bower https://twitter.com/bower or check https://github.com/bower/bower https://github.com/bower/bower
paulojreis 11y ago
Although there is a rationale for converging to npm, the tl;dr regarding bower is that it's not cool any more.
juriansluiman 11y ago
I loved bower and really preferred it in regard with npm for frontend modules. However more and more packages went to npm-only and we completely switched to npm for all. Looking back, I am glad since it's just a nightmare to deal with dozens of package managers. Because bower was installed via npm, we had npm installed already and just skipped the bower part.

why drop bower support damn it!

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

theodorton 11y ago
I think he actually talks about the bower package registry (not browser).
jewel 11y ago
No, he has an objection to them dropping support for "bower", which is a package manager for javascript files. It does seem like a typo of "browser", so I can see where the confusion would come from.
- xxpor 11y ago
  Ha whoops! Thanks
- brianzelip 11y ago
  bower is not just js, but rather lots of various front-end libraries.
  - Killswitch 11y ago
    Bower doesn't do anything npm doesn't already do, except horrible version management. bower install lodash => bower_components/lodash/dist/lodash.min.js npm install lodash => node_modules/lodash/dist/lodash.min.js Only difference there is you use `node_modules` instead of `bower_components` for root directory.
    - endemic 11y ago
      Easier to import as a module if you use Browserify or suchlike: `var _ = require('lodash');`

mrharrison 11y ago

Yeah there is no need to drop bower support. I prefer bower over NPM. I don't understand this. Great work by the way.

mkoryak 11y ago
I think the thinking behind dropping the support is something like this: I use browserify/webpack/node and npm is great. I wish more libs that I use were also on npm so that I wouldnt have to fork/shim them. How can I force other people to use npm? Maybe if I drop bower support for my awesome lib that everyone uses, other libs will follow suit, or perhaps the users will see the light and stop using bower because it sucks.

dannynemer 11y ago

Lodash dropped bower support in favor of npm because "16% use bower vs. 76% npm for AMD packages": https://twitter.com/jdalton/status/677323442488672257 https://twitter.com/jdalton/status/677323442488672257

magicalist 11y ago
...according to a twitter poll on a personal account :P I avoid bower wherever possible, but removing support does smell a bit like an activist move. There may be more to the story, though.
- cwyers 11y ago
  The poll was, should it be dropped, given that fact. The fact was not the poll result.
bryanlarsen 11y ago
Given that there were 14825158 downloads of lodash from npm last month, that implies that there were over 3M downloads from bower. That's a lot of people to throw under the bus.
- andrewchilds 11y ago
  For what was a single 19 line JSON file: https://github.com/lodash/lodash/commit/3b86574b4da0828f6afb4d07b8320c27c56a98f9 https://github.com/lodash/lodash/commit/3b86574b4da0828f6afb...
- jdd 11y ago
  According to bower stats over the last 7 days lodash was installed 23 times compared to 4 million npm downloads & 181 new npm packages depending on it. http://bower.io/stats/ http://bower.io/stats/ http://npm-stat.com/charts.html?package=lodash http://npm-stat.com/charts.html?package=lodash https://gist.github.com/anvaka/8e8fa57c7ee1350e3491/revisions https://gist.github.com/anvaka/8e8fa57c7ee1350e3491/revision...

hyperhopper 11y ago

If more major libraries drop support for bower, it might (hopefully) die soon. What does bower do better than NPM?

javajosh 11y ago
Well, I haven't used npm for css packages yet, but presumably it's okay with webpack/brunch etc.
- cnp 11y ago
  Its great with everything. Frontend / backend, etc. When I removed bower from our app last year, adopted Webpack and migrated everything over to NPM it dramatically simplified things.
- RobertKerans 11y ago
  For Brunch, looks like [initial, probably v buggy] NPM stuff went into master about 10 days ago.
  - javajosh 11y ago
    I've been using npm support in Brunch and so far so good.
    - RobertKerans 11y ago
      Ah, that's good to know; I'd been sticking to Bower for Phoenix' front end stuff, might start looking at migrating them to NPM if Brunch support is stable now.
EvanPlaice 11y ago
JSPM! It works a lot like NPM but is specifically intended for use with front-end modules. Features: - uses System.js (a polyfill for the future ES6-module-loader spec - supports CommonJS, AMD, and UMD formats - has plugins for importing other types (ex css) - support Typescript/Traceur/Babel out of the box - uses a flat dependency structure (ie like NPM v3) - can generate bundles and self-executing bundles (incl tree shaking and minify) - tracks specific versions of dependencies Unlike NPM, module installation doesn't depend on packages published to a central registry. It can install versioned modules directly from GitHub and NPM. The registry it uses is nothing but GitHub repo with module-to-repo mappings and compatibility shims. Here's the link: http://jspm.io/ http://jspm.io/ Lodash is already included in the registry: http://kasperlewau.github.io/registry/#/?q=lodash http://kasperlewau.github.io/registry/#/?q=lodash

timdorr 11y ago

Bower is no longer actively maintained: https://github.com/bower/bower/pull/1748 https://github.com/bower/bower/pull/1748

janpieterz 11y ago
Bower is very actively being maintained: http://bower.io/blog/2015/bower-alive-looking-contributors/ http://bower.io/blog/2015/bower-alive-looking-contributors/ and just read https://twitter.com/bower https://twitter.com/bower or check https://github.com/bower/bower https://github.com/bower/bower

paulojreis 11y ago

Although there is a rationale for converging to npm, the tl;dr regarding bower is that it's not cool any more.

juriansluiman 11y ago

I loved bower and really preferred it in regard with npm for frontend modules. However more and more packages went to npm-only and we completely switched to npm for all. Looking back, I am glad since it's just a nightmare to deal with dozens of package managers. Because bower was installed via npm, we had npm installed already and just skipped the bower part.