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>“It’s a whole new perspective on how the Earth works,” said Daniel J. Fornari, a senior scientist at the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution on Cape Cod, Mass

>“It’s a whole new perspective on how the Earth works,” said Daniel J. Fornari, a senior scientist at the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution on Cape Cod, Mass. It's really interesting to see a scientist say that we don't really know how Earth works. I thought the debate was over.

jofer 11y ago
No geologist would ever (or likely will ever) say that we "really know how the Earth works". I say this as a geologist, and I can't imagine any other geologist disagreeing. The natural sciences are incredibly complex. You're not dealing with nice simple interactions, and we can't run experiments on the time, spatial, or energy scales needed to directly test hypotheses in the way you would in an experimental science. Instead, we observe. We try to understand the present to understand the past and the past to understand the present. When you're observing an uncontrolled system, it's very tough to isolate one variable from another. Geology is often accused of not being "quantitative enough". What people don't realize is that the quantitative part is usually stupidly easy. It's choosing the right physics to model that's hard. We usually don't fully understand exactly which physical process are at work.
- HCIdivision17 11y ago
  Nicely put. This how I always think about economics: we've got plenty of numbers and models, but meaningfully large experiments are are to design without risking a lot of livelihoods. Science is brutal at scale, and I'm ever impressed with the techniques to make sense of the noise.
- JackFr 11y ago
  Next thing, your going to do is tell me that climate models are speculative. But you can't fool me -- I know that geologists are bought and paid for by the oil companies.
mturmon 11y ago
I read a recent article in Science, summarized here (http://science.sciencemag.org/content/349/6252/1032.short http://science.sciencemag.org/content/349/6252/1032.short), on tomographic analysis of Earth's mantle using data recovered during large earthquakes. The large plumes that, for example, create volcanic islands like Hawaii turn out to be ~600km wide, and extend to ~3000 km below the surface. It was not known previously how deep these plumes go. Many thought they were much smaller and shallower. It's in some sense surprising that even basic facts like this are the current frontier.
o_nate 11y ago
Just in terms of geology, you could search HN links from the past year and find lots of areas of ongoing research and disagreement, for instance about the make-up and structure of the earth's core. And if you broaden the idea of "how Earth works" to include things like climate, then the number of areas of ongoing research becomes quite vast.
mrow84 11y ago
I would say it is far more unusual to see a scientist saying that we do really know how the Earth (system) works. You may well encounter people saying that we have a good understanding of certain processes, for example plate tectonics, but that is not the same thing.
yongjik 11y ago
"Listen, I don't know why you do it, but if you keep ramming your head into the wall like that, you can hurt your brain quite badly." "Hah, what do you know, scientist? You already admitted you don't know how the brain works!" "Oh, you're damn right, what was I thinking? Please carry on."

jofer 11y ago

No geologist would ever (or likely will ever) say that we "really know how the Earth works". I say this as a geologist, and I can't imagine any other geologist disagreeing. The natural sciences are incredibly complex. You're not dealing with nice simple interactions, and we can't run experiments on the time, spatial, or energy scales needed to directly test hypotheses in the way you would in an experimental science. Instead, we observe. We try to understand the present to understand the past and the past to understand the present. When you're observing an uncontrolled system, it's very tough to isolate one variable from another. Geology is often accused of not being "quantitative enough". What people don't realize is that the quantitative part is usually stupidly easy. It's choosing the right physics to model that's hard. We usually don't fully understand exactly which physical process are at work.

HCIdivision17 11y ago
Nicely put. This how I always think about economics: we've got plenty of numbers and models, but meaningfully large experiments are are to design without risking a lot of livelihoods. Science is brutal at scale, and I'm ever impressed with the techniques to make sense of the noise.
JackFr 11y ago
Next thing, your going to do is tell me that climate models are speculative. But you can't fool me -- I know that geologists are bought and paid for by the oil companies.

mturmon 11y ago

I read a recent article in Science, summarized here (http://science.sciencemag.org/content/349/6252/1032.short http://science.sciencemag.org/content/349/6252/1032.short), on tomographic analysis of Earth's mantle using data recovered during large earthquakes. The large plumes that, for example, create volcanic islands like Hawaii turn out to be ~600km wide, and extend to ~3000 km below the surface. It was not known previously how deep these plumes go. Many thought they were much smaller and shallower. It's in some sense surprising that even basic facts like this are the current frontier.

o_nate 11y ago

Just in terms of geology, you could search HN links from the past year and find lots of areas of ongoing research and disagreement, for instance about the make-up and structure of the earth's core. And if you broaden the idea of "how Earth works" to include things like climate, then the number of areas of ongoing research becomes quite vast.

mrow84 11y ago

I would say it is far more unusual to see a scientist saying that we do really know how the Earth (system) works. You may well encounter people saying that we have a good understanding of certain processes, for example plate tectonics, but that is not the same thing.

yongjik 11y ago

"Listen, I don't know why you do it, but if you keep ramming your head into the wall like that, you can hurt your brain quite badly." "Hah, what do you know, scientist? You already admitted you don't know how the brain works!" "Oh, you're damn right, what was I thinking? Please carry on."