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I don't think Quebec gets a free pass here. It was once the financial capital of Canada until all this separatist talk. Toronto then became the financial capita

I don't think Quebec gets a free pass here. It was once the financial capital of Canada until all this separatist talk. Toronto then became the financial capital of Canada, with something like 40% of its companies HQ'd there. Montreal now has about a third of the GDP of Toronto, yet Toronto only has 1m more people! It seems like Canada is prone to buying into extremism. Be it separatism or the recent love-affair with Putinist style economics banking soley on oil/gas and expecting there never to be a shake-up in the market when clearly the industrialized West was going full tilt into renewables.

raverbashing 11y ago
I agree It's ridiculous when people (not Quebeckers) can't get a job in Quebec, then they go to other provinces and get a job quickly. This is something I've seen from close Not to mention the big gap between provinces, it seems they're more apart than US states
btilly 11y ago
Check the timeline. It wasn't separatism that drove companies out, it was Bill 101. (OK, Bill 101 was driven by the same motives as separatism.) Thanks to that bill, you had a population of professionals who had moved to Montreal for good jobs who found that, because they were born in a different province, their children could not be educated in English. These professionals found it less painful to move to Toronto and find new jobs than they did to watch their children be forced into schools that didn't speak their language. Companies found that it was cheaper to relocate headquarters than to lose these employees, and this accelerated the brain drain. Quebec continues to be hostile to anglophone immigration, but most of the damage is now done and permanent.
- Raphmedia 11y ago
  I'm from Québec. It's all about bilingualism. As someone who learned french from birth, I could not work in tech if I couldn't also communicate in english. That's a requirement for most jobs and I had to work really hard to get a good level of spoken english. We have people that speak french and spanish, french and english, french and german, etc. Bilingualism is strong here, pick it up if you want to work in the area. It's no different for people born in Québec. We learn french at home and then work really hard to learn english for work.
  - btilly 11y ago
    Consider this. I am a Canadian anglophone from British Columbia with highschool French. My children have been raised in the USA with no French. It would be easier for me to take a job and move my family to The Netherlands than to Montreal. (Not a hypothetical example. I turned down an offer a few years ago at a company that wanted to hire me there. My children would have had to learn Dutch, but would have gone to school in English.) If you are founding a company and want access to anglophone talent, would you prefer to start it in Montreal or Amsterdam? What are the economic implications of this fact for Quebec? Quebec has made a decision to value remaining French above economic growth. That's somewhat reasonable. But if you've chosen that, you should be honest with yourselves about the choice you made. And shouldn't be puzzled that your economy has not done so well.
    - Raphmedia 11y ago
      For a lot of people, it is more important to be strong in our values than to ignore them for the sake of the economy even if it means losing economical growth. For Québec to be strong it needs to be true to itself. Selling out our heritage for profit would be unthinkable. You could argue that some laws make no sense and I would agree on some points but people are very afraid to lose what makes Québec what it is and some harsh measures are put in place.
      - btilly 11y ago
        As I said, the decision is somewhat justifiable. But there are plenty of comments like https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10888145 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10888145 which show no awareness of how policy actually translated into economic effects. I believe that you should either make the decision with full awareness of consequences, or else make the opposite decision. But don't make the decision and then be dishonest about what the consequences were.
  - serge2k 11y ago
    > Bilingualism is strong here, pick it up if you want to work in the area or I could work anywhere else in Canada or the US and not have to.

raverbashing 11y ago

I agree It's ridiculous when people (not Quebeckers) can't get a job in Quebec, then they go to other provinces and get a job quickly. This is something I've seen from close Not to mention the big gap between provinces, it seems they're more apart than US states

btilly 11y ago

Check the timeline. It wasn't separatism that drove companies out, it was Bill 101. (OK, Bill 101 was driven by the same motives as separatism.) Thanks to that bill, you had a population of professionals who had moved to Montreal for good jobs who found that, because they were born in a different province, their children could not be educated in English. These professionals found it less painful to move to Toronto and find new jobs than they did to watch their children be forced into schools that didn't speak their language. Companies found that it was cheaper to relocate headquarters than to lose these employees, and this accelerated the brain drain. Quebec continues to be hostile to anglophone immigration, but most of the damage is now done and permanent.

Raphmedia 11y ago
I'm from Québec. It's all about bilingualism. As someone who learned french from birth, I could not work in tech if I couldn't also communicate in english. That's a requirement for most jobs and I had to work really hard to get a good level of spoken english. We have people that speak french and spanish, french and english, french and german, etc. Bilingualism is strong here, pick it up if you want to work in the area. It's no different for people born in Québec. We learn french at home and then work really hard to learn english for work.
- btilly 11y ago
  Consider this. I am a Canadian anglophone from British Columbia with highschool French. My children have been raised in the USA with no French. It would be easier for me to take a job and move my family to The Netherlands than to Montreal. (Not a hypothetical example. I turned down an offer a few years ago at a company that wanted to hire me there. My children would have had to learn Dutch, but would have gone to school in English.) If you are founding a company and want access to anglophone talent, would you prefer to start it in Montreal or Amsterdam? What are the economic implications of this fact for Quebec? Quebec has made a decision to value remaining French above economic growth. That's somewhat reasonable. But if you've chosen that, you should be honest with yourselves about the choice you made. And shouldn't be puzzled that your economy has not done so well.
  - Raphmedia 11y ago
    For a lot of people, it is more important to be strong in our values than to ignore them for the sake of the economy even if it means losing economical growth. For Québec to be strong it needs to be true to itself. Selling out our heritage for profit would be unthinkable. You could argue that some laws make no sense and I would agree on some points but people are very afraid to lose what makes Québec what it is and some harsh measures are put in place.
    - btilly 11y ago
      As I said, the decision is somewhat justifiable. But there are plenty of comments like https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10888145 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10888145 which show no awareness of how policy actually translated into economic effects. I believe that you should either make the decision with full awareness of consequences, or else make the opposite decision. But don't make the decision and then be dishonest about what the consequences were.
- serge2k 11y ago
  > Bilingualism is strong here, pick it up if you want to work in the area or I could work anywhere else in Canada or the US and not have to.