6 ms·

David Bowie, an Internet pioneer

140 points by mcdowall 11y ago

xbryanx 11y ago
It's scary to think about how ephemeral some of these early internet experiments are. Wayback Machine is great for static sites, but I'm amazed that enough of this interactive media/software was captured to even report on. I hope that the Bowie camp has some smart archivists who will preserve this unique material.
- nothis 11y ago
  Right? It's interesting to see data "rust", if you will, over time just like a physical thing. How looking at stuff in the Wayback Machine, some decorative images might not load, some link might lead nowhere and in a way, it's no different from a book's pages falling apart. There's so much data today, everything is stored and categorized, but I still believe that, say, 20 years from now, a lot will be lost nevertheless. No matter how easy it is to store stuff today.
  - frandroid 11y ago
    Really, not only the data needs to be stored, but virtual machines needed to see the content need to be stored as well.
- cpwright 11y ago
  I worked on BowieNet in around 2000. He was really very involved in the site and content. The biggest draw was the members-only concert. Regarding the content. There was another company that did the design work, a bunch of it in flash; but also in HTML for the message boards and stuff that we integrated into our PHP forum that had all the actual messages stored in MySQL. I'm not sure what would have happened to any of that when VillageWorld (the company that did the backend at least initially) went bust in 2004; or if it was migrated away or shut down before that. The live chats were either IRC with a Java web client or we also had an NPH script that we could of used, but I don't remember which ended up being "real" at this point. There were definitely some that were organized and others that were not.
  - drzaiusapelord 11y ago
    Live chats with Bowie? Care to give more details, stories, etc? BowieNet sounds fascinating to me.
castell 11y ago
Omikron (1999) was a great game. It was one of the first open world games with real 3D graphics. You could ride a taxi around the city, enter buildings, etc. Of course GTA3 (2001) took it to the next level, but in 1999 GTA still was 2D: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Theft_Auto_2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Theft_Auto_2 . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omikron:_The_Nomad_Soul https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omikron:_The_Nomad_Soul
- Zikes 11y ago
  $10 DRM Free on GOG: http://www.gog.com/game/omikron_the_nomad_soul http://www.gog.com/game/omikron_the_nomad_soul $10 on Steam as well: http://store.steampowered.com/app/243000/ http://store.steampowered.com/app/243000/ One of my favorite games, however I recommend playing it on Dreamcast if that's an option, as the PC controls are a little painful to work with.
V-2 11y ago
"For a monthly fee, members got an @davidbowie.com-ending email address" Isn't it the same thing Trump gets ridiculed for? ;)
- soneca 11y ago
  No, it isn't the same thing, and you took it out of context to make it seem it is: "BowieNet also operated as a full internet service provider (ISP) in the US and UK, competing with AOL, Claranet and others. For a monthly fee, members got an @davidbowie.com-ending email address and exclusive access to audio recordings, music videos and chat rooms, which the singer participated in himself."
  - soneil 11y ago
    I found these, which give a better idea what the service actually promised: BowieNet VPN Account: For $19.95/month subscribers can obtain full Internet Service Access via a Virtual Private Network (VPN) arrangement with Concentric Networks. Instead of dialing into AOL or your local ISP, you dial a Concentric Networks number and gain full Internet access (web browsing, email, chat, news, FTP) on the back of Concentric's worldwide network. $19.95/month accounts also get an exclusive BowieNet CD-ROM which includes all the software necessary to get you on the Internet together with two video tracks and a newly recorded audio track called Fun. Premium Content: For $5.95/month subscribers who want to retain their current Internet provider can sign up to obtain a username and password to access the premium content of BowieNet. That includes everything on the web as in the BowieNet VPN account, but doesn't include the CD-ROM with the exclusive tracks. From a contemporary review: http://www.teenagewildlife.com/Othermedia/BowieNet/review.html http://www.teenagewildlife.com/Othermedia/BowieNet/review.ht...
  - V-2 11y ago
    How does this change anything? I just meant the manner of using one's name for businesses, services etc. Also note the mysterious ";)" at the end of my comment. It indicates I wasn't being serious
pygy_ 11y ago
Bowie: I don't think we've even seen the tip of the iceberg. I think the potential of what the Internet is going to do to society—both good and bad—is unimaginable. I think we're on the cusp of something exhilarating and terrifying. Interviewer: It's just a tool, though, isn't it? Bowie: No, it's not... no, it's an alien life form [laughs]. It's just arrived from Mars. 1998?
- psykovsky 11y ago
  2000, in fact.
- jccc 11y ago
  I very much doubt that he thought the Internet was invented by Gore in 1997. Expand your time scale to the level of the point he's making, and yes it did just arrive.
  - pygy_ 11y ago
    I was not faulting him for possibly not knowing the full history of the internet. Pre-1997, the internet and the web were both very confidential. It started to become a thing in the public mind around that time, and seeing it, in 2000 (apparently the proper date of the interview) as an alien life form is very insightful.
    - asveikau 11y ago
      I don't disagree that characterizing it as an "alien" would not have been out of place at the time. However, it was not "confidential" in 1996. That is simply a ridiculous statement.
      - pygy_ 11y ago
        s/confidential/not broadly known/ ? I'm a tech head (learned programming in elementary school in the 80's) that grew up in a non technical family, and I discovered the internet, as most people, around 1996, when the TV news started talking about "the information highways".
hakanensari 11y ago
A non-Flash version of the interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiK7s_0tGsg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiK7s_0tGsg
douchescript 11y ago
At 98 those predictions were already old hat.
_jomo 11y ago
For anyone trying to find the website on the WaybackMachine: The BowieNet domain was davidbowie.com, not bowie.net (as noted under the screenshot in the article).
bshimmin 11y ago
I don't remember BowieNet at all, and I was definitely cheerfully using dialup in the UK, with Demon Internet, in the late nineties ('97 onwards I'd say). Was it really a big deal? I can't find out much information about it other than a bunch of news sites this week all regurgitating variants of the same material.
dirtyaura 11y ago
The interview is gold. (I shared it earlier but it didn't garner enough attention https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10883028 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10883028) He perfectly summarized the relationship between the art and the internet: "That gray space in the middle (between the artist and the audience) is what the 21st century is about" Also it is fascinating how certain he was that new mediums will emerge and how different they will be from what we knew back then. When we were pioneering current style of social media with Jaiku back in 2006, many smart people failed to understood how powerful social broadcast media could be. But Bowie was already in 2000 understanding the power of it.
- wodenokoto 11y ago
  Did he bank on it in any way? I've never noticed Bowie doing anything particular social media, youtube exclusive, pay what you want or other similar new media age kind of things. As far as I know, he did news paper and TV intervews, released albums, played live shows and acted in movies. Doesn't seem very "social broadcast media" to me.
  - k-mcgrady 11y ago
    I read yesterday he started his own ISP (BowieNet I think).
    - petemill 11y ago
      Hats what this article is about...
  - Arnt 11y ago
    Bank on it... in a way, yes. He sold the rights to his albums. People gave him ready money in exchange for the future income from his albums. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celebrity_bond https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celebrity_bond
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
Detrus 11y ago
The interviewer's perspective was no less prophetic about the current reality. The internet is mostly a tool to spread the same old media type of content, just more and faster. A lot more America's Favorite Home videos and niche channels than were possible before. A lot more spam, gossip and passing notes, which is not very alien. Engelbart also thought we would get somewhere alien. He underestimated the power of the mainstream.
Queen_Station 11y ago
Some very ignorant remarks and assumptions of people who did not watch the full live BBC video interview relating to him, music & the internet and are taking snippets - of course the internet was estsblished before 1998!!! Some folks do not have a command of the english language and think they are computer boffins. He was not talking "Microsoft" for example - relative to music , him and people (audience) ... Very smart man - also get the interviewer's question to comprehend his response ... People who were born in the middle 70s & after, unless savy and forward thinking do not get: "David Bowie, an internet pioneer" YES, most definitely I concur; he was & is ... You're programmed already & not an individual (thinking tech facts blah) nor creative as he was & he was the 1st "Personality" to offer himself as an ISP - #Fact RIP Mr. JONES

140 points by mcdowall 11y ago

It's scary to think about how ephemeral some of these early internet experiments are. Wayback Machine is great for static sites, but I'm amazed that enough of this interactive media/software was captured to even report on. I hope that the Bowie camp has some smart archivists who will preserve this unique material.

nothis 11y ago
Right? It's interesting to see data "rust", if you will, over time just like a physical thing. How looking at stuff in the Wayback Machine, some decorative images might not load, some link might lead nowhere and in a way, it's no different from a book's pages falling apart. There's so much data today, everything is stored and categorized, but I still believe that, say, 20 years from now, a lot will be lost nevertheless. No matter how easy it is to store stuff today.
- frandroid 11y ago
  Really, not only the data needs to be stored, but virtual machines needed to see the content need to be stored as well.
cpwright 11y ago
I worked on BowieNet in around 2000. He was really very involved in the site and content. The biggest draw was the members-only concert. Regarding the content. There was another company that did the design work, a bunch of it in flash; but also in HTML for the message boards and stuff that we integrated into our PHP forum that had all the actual messages stored in MySQL. I'm not sure what would have happened to any of that when VillageWorld (the company that did the backend at least initially) went bust in 2004; or if it was migrated away or shut down before that. The live chats were either IRC with a Java web client or we also had an NPH script that we could of used, but I don't remember which ended up being "real" at this point. There were definitely some that were organized and others that were not.
- drzaiusapelord 11y ago
  Live chats with Bowie? Care to give more details, stories, etc? BowieNet sounds fascinating to me.

castell 11y ago

Omikron (1999) was a great game. It was one of the first open world games with real 3D graphics. You could ride a taxi around the city, enter buildings, etc. Of course GTA3 (2001) took it to the next level, but in 1999 GTA still was 2D: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Theft_Auto_2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Theft_Auto_2 . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omikron:_The_Nomad_Soul https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omikron:_The_Nomad_Soul

Zikes 11y ago
$10 DRM Free on GOG: http://www.gog.com/game/omikron_the_nomad_soul http://www.gog.com/game/omikron_the_nomad_soul $10 on Steam as well: http://store.steampowered.com/app/243000/ http://store.steampowered.com/app/243000/ One of my favorite games, however I recommend playing it on Dreamcast if that's an option, as the PC controls are a little painful to work with.

V-2 11y ago

"For a monthly fee, members got an @davidbowie.com-ending email address" Isn't it the same thing Trump gets ridiculed for? ;)

soneca 11y ago
No, it isn't the same thing, and you took it out of context to make it seem it is: "BowieNet also operated as a full internet service provider (ISP) in the US and UK, competing with AOL, Claranet and others. For a monthly fee, members got an @davidbowie.com-ending email address and exclusive access to audio recordings, music videos and chat rooms, which the singer participated in himself."
- soneil 11y ago
  I found these, which give a better idea what the service actually promised: BowieNet VPN Account: For $19.95/month subscribers can obtain full Internet Service Access via a Virtual Private Network (VPN) arrangement with Concentric Networks. Instead of dialing into AOL or your local ISP, you dial a Concentric Networks number and gain full Internet access (web browsing, email, chat, news, FTP) on the back of Concentric's worldwide network. $19.95/month accounts also get an exclusive BowieNet CD-ROM which includes all the software necessary to get you on the Internet together with two video tracks and a newly recorded audio track called Fun. Premium Content: For $5.95/month subscribers who want to retain their current Internet provider can sign up to obtain a username and password to access the premium content of BowieNet. That includes everything on the web as in the BowieNet VPN account, but doesn't include the CD-ROM with the exclusive tracks. From a contemporary review: http://www.teenagewildlife.com/Othermedia/BowieNet/review.html http://www.teenagewildlife.com/Othermedia/BowieNet/review.ht...
- V-2 11y ago
  How does this change anything? I just meant the manner of using one's name for businesses, services etc. Also note the mysterious ";)" at the end of my comment. It indicates I wasn't being serious

pygy_ 11y ago

Bowie: I don't think we've even seen the tip of the iceberg. I think the potential of what the Internet is going to do to society—both good and bad—is unimaginable. I think we're on the cusp of something exhilarating and terrifying. Interviewer: It's just a tool, though, isn't it? Bowie: No, it's not... no, it's an alien life form [laughs]. It's just arrived from Mars. 1998?

psykovsky 11y ago
2000, in fact.
jccc 11y ago
I very much doubt that he thought the Internet was invented by Gore in 1997. Expand your time scale to the level of the point he's making, and yes it did just arrive.
- pygy_ 11y ago
  I was not faulting him for possibly not knowing the full history of the internet. Pre-1997, the internet and the web were both very confidential. It started to become a thing in the public mind around that time, and seeing it, in 2000 (apparently the proper date of the interview) as an alien life form is very insightful.
  - asveikau 11y ago
    I don't disagree that characterizing it as an "alien" would not have been out of place at the time. However, it was not "confidential" in 1996. That is simply a ridiculous statement.
    - pygy_ 11y ago
      s/confidential/not broadly known/ ? I'm a tech head (learned programming in elementary school in the 80's) that grew up in a non technical family, and I discovered the internet, as most people, around 1996, when the TV news started talking about "the information highways".

hakanensari 11y ago

A non-Flash version of the interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiK7s_0tGsg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiK7s_0tGsg

douchescript 11y ago

At 98 those predictions were already old hat.

_jomo 11y ago

For anyone trying to find the website on the WaybackMachine: The BowieNet domain was davidbowie.com, not bowie.net (as noted under the screenshot in the article).

bshimmin 11y ago

I don't remember BowieNet at all, and I was definitely cheerfully using dialup in the UK, with Demon Internet, in the late nineties ('97 onwards I'd say). Was it really a big deal? I can't find out much information about it other than a bunch of news sites this week all regurgitating variants of the same material.

dirtyaura 11y ago

The interview is gold. (I shared it earlier but it didn't garner enough attention https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10883028 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10883028) He perfectly summarized the relationship between the art and the internet: "That gray space in the middle (between the artist and the audience) is what the 21st century is about" Also it is fascinating how certain he was that new mediums will emerge and how different they will be from what we knew back then. When we were pioneering current style of social media with Jaiku back in 2006, many smart people failed to understood how powerful social broadcast media could be. But Bowie was already in 2000 understanding the power of it.

wodenokoto 11y ago
Did he bank on it in any way? I've never noticed Bowie doing anything particular social media, youtube exclusive, pay what you want or other similar new media age kind of things. As far as I know, he did news paper and TV intervews, released albums, played live shows and acted in movies. Doesn't seem very "social broadcast media" to me.
- k-mcgrady 11y ago
  I read yesterday he started his own ISP (BowieNet I think).
  - petemill 11y ago
    Hats what this article is about...
- Arnt 11y ago
  Bank on it... in a way, yes. He sold the rights to his albums. People gave him ready money in exchange for the future income from his albums. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celebrity_bond https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celebrity_bond
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]

Detrus 11y ago

The interviewer's perspective was no less prophetic about the current reality. The internet is mostly a tool to spread the same old media type of content, just more and faster. A lot more America's Favorite Home videos and niche channels than were possible before. A lot more spam, gossip and passing notes, which is not very alien. Engelbart also thought we would get somewhere alien. He underestimated the power of the mainstream.

Queen_Station 11y ago

Some very ignorant remarks and assumptions of people who did not watch the full live BBC video interview relating to him, music & the internet and are taking snippets - of course the internet was estsblished before 1998!!! Some folks do not have a command of the english language and think they are computer boffins. He was not talking "Microsoft" for example - relative to music , him and people (audience) ... Very smart man - also get the interviewer's question to comprehend his response ... People who were born in the middle 70s & after, unless savy and forward thinking do not get: "David Bowie, an internet pioneer" YES, most definitely I concur; he was & is ... You're programmed already & not an individual (thinking tech facts blah) nor creative as he was & he was the 1st "Personality" to offer himself as an ISP - #Fact RIP Mr. JONES